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From: "Diane Ellerton" <>
Subject: Re: Publican versus other occupations
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:42:01 +0100


Hi Valerie,

With regard to pubs here, I don't know how far back the tradition goes, but
there are "tied houses" and "free houses," the former actually belonging to
a brewery and let to the landlord or publican - rather like a McDonald's
franchise in modern terms. Generally speaking, if such a publican is in it
as a permanent occupation, the brewery can move him from one pub to another,
and he is merely an employee of the brewery, not an owner of the pub.

As to a free house, the publican may or may not be the owner; if he has
enough money, he can buy the pub outright [if it's for sale]. He may also
be an employee, however, as in the case of someone else owning the pub but
not wanting to run it themselves.

I have several instances of different occupations reported for the same
person. One is listed as "railway porter," then "shoemaker," then
"cordwainer [well, same as "shoemaker"], and then "refreshment rooms." They
are probably all correct. He did whatever he could do to support a large
family.

In the case of his father, who definitely spent most of his life as a groom
for various peers, he said that he on two [brief] occasions "took a pub,"
meaning, I'm sure, that he ran it rather than bought it. He still would
have been "the publican" to his clientele at that time. So it must have been
quite common for people not only to have more than one occupation but to
have been a publican for only a short period of time.

Diane in York
-----Original Message-----
From: Valerie Gray <>
To: <>
Date: 07 July 2000 01:02
Subject: Publican versus other occupations


>Hello Listers
>I think I need "clarification," or just plain help.
>The ancestor that I am researching is John Abram "Publican" of the New
>Inn
>Tony was kind enough to give me this information.
>To Tony - I could say prove it..But I would sooner say HOW can I prove
>it. On all the documents ,census, birth certificates of his children,
>his death certificate it states that he was a wheelwright. True the
>1881 census says Abode- Skipton Rd. New Inn - occupation Wheelwright.
>But his son lived at Bachelor Gardens - and he wasn't a bachelor<g>
>I wrote to the Pub Index List with my inquiry and they answered my
>inquiry with a Thank you for your "contribution" to the index.
>I have also had replies about other members of my family from other
>lists and find I have the same problem...a tradesman found to be a
>Publican also, yet there too is no mention of it on any certificates or
>census.
>I am concerned that I may have inadvertently sent Pub Index some errors
>that they may consider to be fact.
>How do I find the information on Publicans?, Was this a secondary job to
>a tradesman job?
>What is the correct definition of a publican? I thought it was a person
>who owns and operates a drinking and eating establishment
>Was being a Publican more prestigious than a tradesman, if so why not
>claim it as an occupation on the census and birth certificates?
>Thanks
>Val - Ontario, Canada
>
>______________________________


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