WARWICK-L Archives

Archiver > WARWICK > 2009-02 > 1234939198


From: "Gus Tysoe" <>
Subject: Re: [WAR] St Edith(a) ? in Monks Kirby
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:39:58 -0000
References: <32599669.32761.1234882132724.JavaMail.www@wwinf2230><f418b47297bbc3ec77ae99f72a6b8516@vfast.co.uk><3309CDF3CBD24444AEA1F3F8150106C7@Laptop><56FC02F07F614411A569D148F4E821EA@MAIN><6CE6AE00BCCBC54EAC0E9E7F39437EA409F973@angelone.internal.admin.cam.ac.uk>


Hello David,

Thank you for the exposition on the derivation from Anglo-Saxon via
Norman-French and Latin through to English - but I wonder what the Lady
herself would have thought about it all. And if she was anything like a
number of today's Ann[e]s I know, I suspect she'd've had Strong Feelings
about a perceived incorrect choice of the final letter :-)

But there's one other point that's been significantly omitted from the
thread so far - this is a Parish of the Church of England, the State
Religion. Which means that (unless a 'place' is large enough to contain
more-than-one CofE Parish) any dedication is of no significance whatsoever.
The name of the Parish is the name of the 'place' - full stop. Although
dedications may be of some importance to - er - "lesser creeds without the
law", they're beneath the notice of the monolithic Established Church. Which
is why, to this day, a number are still undedicated.


All of which said, I'm still plumping for St Edith...

Gus



----- Original Message -----
From: "David Franks" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [WAR] St Edith(a) ? in Monks Kirby


> Where are the Anglo-Saxon experts when we need them? I disclaim any such
> expertise!
>
> I'm not sure that there is going to be a 'right' answer to this. The
> first church in Monks Kirby
> pre-dates the Norman Conquest, and the dedication would have been to an
> Anglo-Saxon saint, possibly
> St Aedgyth. The Norman French clerks did not usually speak or understand
> Anglo-Saxon, and found it
> difficult to pronounce Anglo-Saxon names, and so rendered a name like
> Aedgyth as Editha, adding the
> final a to indicate that the Saint was female (the A-Ss did not use this
> form). At a later time
> Editha became Edith, but Aedgyth, Editha and Edith are the same name (see
> Anglo-Saxon England by
> Clemoes, Keynes and Lapidge for more about this, if you really feel the
> need!).
>
> The VCH, the church notice-board, or any other source may use either Edith
> or Editha, but I doubt if
> any of them will have proof of the original dedication. In fact there are
> very few dedications of
> ancient churches that are supported by reliable evidence. What
> documentary evidence exists was
> usually written long after the building and dedication of the original
> church, often with some
> political or PR aim. The VCH certainly doesn't tell us why they prefer one
> form of the name. And I
> don't personally think it matters. Names change over the years. And I
> also don't think that this
> kind of issue is ever going to be decided: the various sources quoted will
> go on using their own
> preference.
>
> David Franks
>
> Researching Castle & Tallis in Warwickshire & Oxfordshire, and Thomas
> Castle, convict transported to
> van Diemen's Land 1841 Warwickshire Online Parish Clerks
> http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/opc/opc.html
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [mailto:]
> On Behalf Of Jacqui Simkins
> Sent: 17 February 2009 16:30
> To:
> Subject: Re: [WAR] St Edith(a) ? in Monks Kirby
>
> Hear, hear. Diocese and parish do show different names for several -
> surely they each should know
> the correct name and spelling? The Warwick RO shows others (not even a
> variant of the name) in some
> cases. A definitive, beyond doubt, listing of original dedications +
> modern interpretation as used
> by each parish would be useful.
>
> Anyone game to try doing it...is there to be a stampede of offers?
>
> In the interim, I shall be using the dedication found in the majority of
> instances [Arnold-Forster +
> directories + diocese + parish + census + VCH] <g>
>
> Jacqui
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gus Tysoe
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [WAR] St Edith(a) ? in Monks Kirby
>
>
> Hi Angela,
>
> That is, indeed, one method that looks as if it should give The Answer -
> but
> I know of 2 other CofE chuches in WAR where the 'Church' - presumably the
> Parochial Church Council - has different ideas from the Diocese as to the
> 'true' spelling of the dedication!
>
> It's the apparent lack of any Official Listing - or, if there is such a
> thing, its whereabouts - that is the underlying reason behind the
> difficulty
> of determining Dedications :-(
>
> Gus

This thread: