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Archiver > UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP > 2008-11 > 1225791747


From: David Blake <>
Subject: Re: [UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP] Pirated Information
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:42:27 +0000 (GMT)


Hello everyone

I agree that there is a problem here. I have found that a lot of information which I have gathered has been put in GR by someone else without asking me, including information about living relatives.

David


----- Original Message ----
From: "" <>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008 9:03:23
Subject: Re: [UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP] Pirated Information


Hi Dennis and all,
This was a very unfortunate incident. The Norfolk list I subscribe to
has in the past discussed the perils of the tree-nappers and the
pitfalls associated with GR and other similar sites. I am a fairly
casual researcher and have been fortunate to receive some very detailed
and helpful records from four people but I would not consider passing
them on or putting them on a web site unless I had permission and unless
I had checked them myself. I have seen versions of part of my family
tree on the web, compiled by others, that are way off the mark because
the compiler has not had access to the necessary parish registers/ has
not understood them or has misinterpreted them.
There was also a kerfuffle on one list about living relatives. I
usually only share this information with people who may have known or
had parents who knew my living relatives/grandparents. Contrary to the
impertinent reply to Dennis, I find post 1901 and pre 1983 records
harder to sort out because there is not the useful lead of the census .
Trawling the GRO records and purchasing certificates for more recent
relatives is time consuming and expensive, people were moving around
more and in the second half of the 20th century baptisms cannot be
assumed. although the information is in the public domain getting it
together is not easy. e.g. to sort out my mother in laws uncles and
aunts from their cousins would have taken me about 15 certificates as
their births pre-dated the point where mothers maiden names are on the
GRO index. Using parish records involved searching the records of
three different large town churches. Not as easy as is made out. And
even if identity theft is not an anxiety, posting the details of
someone's living family on the internet is not necessary for those
researching _ancestry.
_Rosie in Norfolk
hamilton wrote:
> Dear Mabel
>
> You raised some really interesting points about plagiarism. Your are right
> you can't just go and take someone else's work and copy it.
>
> I've got the 1881 British Census and a few other records if you need a
> look-up.
>
> regards
>
> Mary
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mabel Harvey" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP] Pirated Information
>
>
>
>> Hi Dennis and Mary
>>
>> I have found the GR site great for making connections with people doing
>> similar family research and have made some long term connections who I
>> frequently email back and forth with, and whom I share family summarys as
>> well as BDM certificates with. I have all so had great feed back on trying
>> to break down Brick walls that we each have.
>>
>> *However* I have all so already had some bad experiences with people on
>> the
>> GR site who just want to gather all the information they can from your
>> tree
>> and just copy it straight on to theirs. I have found this most
>> disheartning.
>> And have had the same experience of suddenly getting a whole lot of new
>> Hot
>> matches to people who had obviously subsequently copied this info straight
>> on to there tree as well. Much of the info they coppied had come from New
>> Zealand and so not as easily accesible or veriafiable by way of the net so
>> obviously just coppied with no attempt made to verify it. For all these
>> people new, they could have been coppying a lot of incorect rubbish.
>> Unfortunately though some of my more detailed research is in other peoples
>> trees who I do not even know or had no contact with and that was not my
>> intention.
>>
>> I have only been doing my family history for just over a year however have
>> allready realized that unfortunately there are a substanual number of
>> people
>> in the Genealogy community going for quantity rather than quality. I
>> personally don't see the point of blindly coppying other peoples trees
>> without thouroughly cheeking out the research your self.
>>
>> I don't know how to use a gedcom and never use them. As I tend to just
>> record any info I get from any one else jot it down in my notebook I have
>> on
>> each name in my tree and then use it as a helpful pointer for my own
>> research which includes sourcing primary resorces such as Census, BDM and
>> parish records to confirm what they have found; always trying to keep in
>> mind that they may be pointing me in the wrong direction.
>>
>> What I have done on my GR tree to try and solve the problem and balance
>> making connections while still keeping some control over my tree as best
>> as
>> able, is to just put each ancestors name only, along with year of birth
>> and
>> location. That way I can make new connections however the info available
>> is
>> limited unless I chose to share more. I also have the privacy setting on
>> which means that the more recently born people have no details present.
>>
>> I also only open my tree once a couple of conversations have taken
>> place,
>> a definate connection exists and I feel the person doesn't sound/of fell
>> to
>> me like a potential parasite although that is not always easy to tell.
>>
>> Once I have seen their tree I note that warning bells go off it they have
>> 1000's of names listed in their. This makes me more cautious although I
>> realize that if a person has been doing their family tree a long time that
>> is quite possible and often is a well researched tree form a very genuin
>> researcher.
>>
>> Even with all these precautions unfortunately there are still going to be
>> plagarism problems. I do not agree with Roberts arguement that the records
>> are all out there for every one as the great difficulty comes with
>> finding,
>> connecting aand interpereting them correctly.
>>
>> Just because we all know we all had ancestors and that their records are
>> hopefully out their some where it is the fact that you actually have to go
>> and look for them and make all the connections which in turn lead you to
>> further ancestors and then more records.
>>
>> If someone writes an essay about say "WWII" and then some one else copies
>> it
>> and uses it like there own and then says it was okay to copy iwhat the
>> other
>> person had written without researching it themselves because the
>> information
>> is all out there, is this really acceptable? I don't think so! It's calle
>> Plagarism.
>>
>> Shouldn't it be the same thing with our Genealogy.
>>
>> I know I am only a newby to Genealogy research but this attitude of people
>> blindly copping one's tree with little personal research is something that
>> is already bothereing me considerably and I think spoiling it for the
>> people
>> who do want to do the right thing and research their ancestors both
>> thourougly and accurately and which does include a cooperative sharing of
>> information.
>>
>> I hope you have made it to the end of this message but I needed to have my
>> say as well. although I am not sure this was the best forum just the one
>> tha
>> it was bought up on.
>>
>> Good luck with your research Dennis and keep your chin up. Keep up the
>> research as I'm sure you will have some ancestors of your own who even if
>> they don't now, will surely thouroughly enjoy reading your research and
>> finding out about their extended family and where they are from. And also
>> it
>> has obviously given you much enjoyment and satisfaction thus far.
>>
>> Regards Mabel
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 12:22 PM, hamilton <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Dear Dennis
>>>
>>> I do know how you feel. I let someone look at my tree and the next thing
>>> I
>>> was getting matches back from genesreunited.
>>>
>>> I think Genesreunited is a good site to connect with people and further
>>> research. I too learned the hard way I no longer give access to my tree
>>> unless I can see theirs first to see if they have actually done some
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you could ask the person to tick the box that allows those living
>>> not to be shown, I do not show living people, in some way it is an
>>> invasion
>>> of their privacy.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Genesreunited would ask him to take the information off.
>>>
>>> My thoughts are with you, it is very unfair what has happened and show
>>> the
>>> integrity of the person concerned.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "DennisAllen05" <>
>>> To: <>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:17 AM
>>> Subject: [UK-WORKHOUSE-HOSP] Pirated Information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> WARNING; Pick your friends very carefully.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been collecting information tiny piece by tiny piece for many
>>>>
>>> years
>>>
>>>> and was very proud to have assembled a fairly complex tree to pass on
>>>> to
>>>> my
>>>> descendants. Perhaps I have been naive in thinking I had done well.
>>>> After
>>>> speaking with a fellow genealogist in Suffolk a few days ago, she asked
>>>>
>>> if
>>>
>>>> I
>>>> used GenesReunited, my reply was no but I decided to try it anyhow just
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> see what it was about.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was amazed to see my entire family tree including all my notes were
>>>> already there entered by a distant relative who I had PRIVATELY
>>>> exchanged
>>>> information with. When I exchange information I always ask that nothing
>>>>
>>> is
>>>
>>>> passed on without my permission, which in this case was not given. I
>>>> usually
>>>> welcome questions from other genealogists and don't mind filling in a
>>>> few
>>>> blanks for them but this experience has made me sick to my stomach and
>>>> I
>>>> feel like giving up altogether. I know this will not really happen but
>>>> I
>>>> don't
>>>> think I will be passing anything on ever again. To hell with them and
>>>> let
>>>> them do it the hard way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After asking why my tree had been put on GenesReunited including many
>>>> living
>>>> relatives including my children and grandchildren also including all my
>>>> personal notes, he sent the following reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, Dennis,
>>>>
>>>> Is my great age having a big effect? Are you not the Dennis Allen
>>>> () who sent me much of this material?
>>>>
>>>> But perhaps not, as I see your GR tree has only two children of Wilfred
>>>> Allen and Marjotie Ogle instead of nine.
>>>>
>>>> (Also, I see, you are infected by the dreaded "living relation" virus,
>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>> antithesis of what GR is suppose to be about, and a refusal to fave the
>>>> reality that these details have already been revealed in birth notices,
>>>> parish registers, IGI detail amd so on.)
>>>>
>>>> KR
>>>>
>>>> Robert Rodrigo ()
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello, Dennis,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your GR message. Why are you surprised?
>>>>
>>>> RK
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>> Be very careful who you share with, there are parasites out there
>>>> waiting
>>>> to
>>>> feed from your hard won information.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dennis Allen
>>>> Scarborough
>>>>
>>>> Totally Pissed Off
>>>>
>>>>
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>
>
>
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