Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2012-02 > 1328844149
Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:22:29 +0000 (UTC)
We now call those guys who never arrived 'land speculators' <grin>. They're not a recent invention.
I was googling for Desertcreat, etc, after discovering your parishes don't overlap the ones I have history on in Tyrone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertcreat is pretty useful. PRONI also has a list of townlands:
The Placename project may have some history.
This site has some Griffiths info including immediate lessor:
Looking at these you see Andy Mulholland was a Big Guy. You didn't want to piss him off or you might have to emigrate to America! Lots of names of the local Irish tribes: Hagen, Henry (O"Cahans), Mulholland, etc.
On BALLYNACROY you have
GREER, Thomas In Fee (Owner) Meaning Thomas owned it, flat out.
Someone wrote a book on how to interpret Griffiths. It's not a thick book, but it does enable you to squeeze lots of info out. Note how there are different surnames on different townlands. Notice how many different immediate lessors there are. As people rented directly from them, they wre the landlord and he kept the rent records, or his agent did.
GENUKI is very good:
It has the whole history.
NICE map here:
Note here that desertcreat is included in a Lindsay estate:
Googling Lindsay estate Tyrone, I find this page:
This is of course totally different from everything I wrote before, but you can do a lot on the Internet these days!
This looks like the same estate:
http://www.cotyroneireland.com/estates/lindsayestate.html Probably only some townlands in Desartcreat were in the Lindsay estate. Knowing the Lindsay estate was also called the Loughry estate, I found this:
Names of tenants on the estate of the Lindesays of Loughry near Cookstown, County Tyrone.
Source: National Library of Ireland, Ms 5204
Lets you search for names but gotta join. Possibly MS 5204 is in the FHL and can be ordered on microfilm. Hard to figure it out..or remember how you did it last time. There was also an index to these manscripts published in the late 1990s....
Here's a history of the Lindsay estate back into the 1600s:
The Loughry Estate dates back to 1611 when the land around Loughry was granted to Robert Lindesay by King James 1. The estate remained with the Lindesay family until 1908 when the then Ministry of Agriculture and Technical Instruction purchased the property and established The Ulster Dairy School for girls to study dairying and poultry-keeping courses"
So only the Lindsays to track down.
That's how us lazy people get a jump up on the scholars toiling away in the library stacks <grin>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "D H" <>
Sent: Thursday, 9 February, 2012 9:36:33 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery, Hamilton, McDonald plantations
Well your last sentence certainly is true! I know even some of the Undertakers didn't even arrive or take up the land...
Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone are areas where I also need to find about, so like you, I'd be inclined to believe it points to a
Scottish descent, he became Rector of Tullanisken/Desertcreat in 1614, appointed via Trinity College, so I can check that out next time I'm in Dublin.
His son got 1000 acres there in 1840's from Lord Castlestewart.
Boy did they move around...followed them over time through six counties so far...not to mention USA, Australia etc.
Your reply is what I thought and expected but no harm in asking just in case!
Again, thank you.
Re: [S-I] 17th century Ulster records for Individuals on Montgomery,Hamilton, McDonald plantations
/Date:/ Thu, 9 Feb 2012 19:59:55 -0500
I don't believe any rent books of tenants survive pre-1700, and even at
that time it's pretty sparse. The only thing recording "who got what" was
acreages to the big undertakers that were to bring planters. I was only
able to put two and two together regarding my ancestors on Lord Ochiltree's
(Andrew Stewart's) land because they have many farms in the hearth rolls
around Tullyniskan, Desertcreat, and Killyman in Tyrone. Stewart was from
Ayrshire and recruited a lot of planters in Dumfries & Galloway where my
ancestors were from, so there's really no actual link besides that.
The earliest records of some of the McLain brothers were actually on
English land (Clogher, Tyrone in 1626 and Bellaghy, L'Derry in 1630) which
just goes to show you how much moving around there was and also reinforces
what Leyburn said in his book "The Scotch-Irish: A Social History", that
tenants were not loyal to one estate. Clearly there was a lack of
Englishmen for the amount of land that were in the hands of English
undertakers. A lot of English packed up and went home as they weren't made
out for this rough frontier life. I believe Londonerry (planted by the
London companies) became almost wholly Scotch in character by the 1640s. I
believe a lot of Scottish merchants trading in
Coleraine/Londonderry/Belfast would have been inundated with advertisements
for cheap land throughout Ulster and would have had their pick. There was
a strict plan for who got what, but really after 1620, anyone could have
ended up anywhere.
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