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From: "Martha Davis" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in Ireland
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:10:47 -0400
References: <1962163694.274778.1309913588085.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Linda: No I'm not looking further to id the (illegitimate) <g> father of my
gr grandfather Cook - to muddle the waters further it is said in his
Cherokee App that it was proven in the Court of Gilmer Co GA (formed 1832)
that Tucker, the Indian, had admitted paternity in open Court, and I had the
choice of exploring those old records in Gilmer's damp, rat infested
basement or digging up a Tucker descendant along with my brother for DNA
testing! The Papa Goin living next door was divorced from his wife in 1829
(the year my gr gfather was born) and moved away - he was 30+ years senior
to my lady-of-ill-repute and his six sons were her approximate age. I
assume that the dna of one would match the dna of all, so I'm content to
drop it.
I do, however, have several possible male Union SC Cook descendants of my
immigrants to try coercing into DNA testing, and I'd like to pin down my
Cook's Irish location, so back to my question for your recommendation:
familytreedna w/67 markers or 23and me? Thanks much for the Fulton site,
interesting! Martha
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
Ireland
> Hi Martha, hey, join the crowd! ('m confused too <grin>).
>
> There were Fultons about in Antrim. A James Fulton was born in 1840 in
> Portrush, Co Antrim. He was the son of a Thomas Fulton. Thomas married in
> Coagh, Tamlaght, Tyrone (an Elizabeth McCamish). He died and she married a
> Hamilton and they migrated first to Scotland then to Australia. Nothing
> earlier on the Fultons, alas!
>
> But I think you are trying to id the father of your great granddad. You
> might want to check the deeds in the county for these Goins as well as tax
> records, military records, esp. pensions, etc, looking for a man of an age
> to have fathered him. This man would have to have been old enough to
> father a child when your GGGF was born, or nine months before to be exact.
> Eliminate the dead ones, the young ones, and the old ones. Though keep an
> eye on the old ones. If there are any court records check them. Sometimes
> the county got involved. If they couldn't find someone responsible for
> raising the child, he could become a burden on the public. I don't know
> the financial circumstances ...sometimes it doesn't hurt to find a
> published abstract of the wills and check the index to see if he was
> willed anything in a will by a father or grandfather. Was he apprenticed
> or taught a trade? Though sometimes the county would apprentice the child
> (so he'd earn his keep and not become a burden), sometimes the father's
> family looked out for the child. I dealt with a case in PA where a child
> with no father we've found so far, apparently b. in Maryland in a Co where
> the surname doesn't appear at all in the land-related records. I suspect
> his mother was a servant. In any case, a UFO miraculously whisked him off
> to Chambersburg, PA, where he was apprenticed into a newspaper family. He
> was also permitted to marry a daughter. Later he moved south into VA where
> he became a newspaper man but died young. His two sons were apprenticed to
> the newspaper family. Later they moved west and became big time newspaper
> men. I strongly suspect he was related to the newspaper family. Had the
> money not run out, I'd checked for ties back to Baltimore for them. And,
> these days, if we could find a descendant, we could check autosomal DNA to
> see if the descendant matches. Surname McKinney.
>
> In your case I'd try to find an expert to interpret your Goin match.
> Identifying a match when you have NO paper at all is a little tricky. The
> markers do not mutate at the same rate, so a 'match' that only matches on
> fast changing markers might not be so convincing. There are people who
> specialize in these kind of things. Check on the DNA-Newbie at rootsweb.
> Maybe you can find someone to give an opinion free there. Autosomal
> testing might also turn up interesting results. Ie the software would say
> your brother and the other person are probably, say, 4th cousins.
>
> Not all African Y chromos recently left Africa. The Romans brought
> Africans to England and they assimilated into the populace so sometimes it
> can be hard to distinguish them, but then again, find an expert. There are
> projects focusing on African DNA. Presumedly the DNA would mutate
> differently in England versus the homeland so maybe someone can tell the
> difference. I sure couldn't!!
>
> The Chesney Connection is great. Check the FHL as they may have additional
> Chesney materials.
>
> Did you see this webpage? Fultons in Lisburn
> http://richardsfulton.com/index.htm
>
> He's got a line that probably is the one that married into the McCamishes
> here:
> http://richardsfulton.com/Lisburn-NewZealandFultons.htm .
>
> Linda Merle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martha Davis" <>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 4:17:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
> Ireland
>
> Hi Linda, no I'm not Don Thompson, I just butted in on his conversation
> and
> since my name is being bandied about I thought I'd chime in again. <g> I'm
> fortunate in that Alexander Chesney, Loyalist in the Revolutionary War who
> fled back to Ireland & wrote a Journal in the late 1790s saying (in
> pertinent part to me) that his grandmother Jane Fulton Chesney was sister
> to
> my Sarah Fulton (b. cir 1715) who had married John Cook who died in PA (no
> date or place) and when Chesney and his family came into SC in 1772 a
> letter
> awaited them from his 'aunt widow Cook' inviting them to settle near her
> in
> Union SC which they did. Chesney gives his birthplace as Dunclug,
> Ballymena, Antrim and it has been assumed (but not by me) that John &
> Sarah
> originated there, too - my only assumption is that the Fulton sisters
> stayed
> in touch. I don't know when John & Sarah came into PA, probably Lancaster,
> but Sarah & children moved into Union SC before 1772 (Land Grants to Irish
> Protestants) and I'm told one child remained in Union. I made two
> Ulster-Scots Tours to NI but had limited time at PRONI and the most
> prominent thing there in researching 'Cook' was Chesney's Journal which I
> actually held in my grubby little hands. He was way more interested in
> recounting that blasted War than all he left unsaid to me! <g>
>
> My gr grandfather Richard Cook b. 1829 was illegitimate and died thinking
> he
> was the son of John Tucker (He Mama told him so!), an Indian (Richard's
> 1896
> app for Cherokee Membership and his 1908 app. for Cherokee funds) so I
> found
> a Tucker descendant to test through familytreedna along with my brother
> and
> there was no match - my brother (E1b1a, Africa) matched 8 Goins which I've
> found no connection to (although in 1830 Hall Co. Ga there was a Goin
> family
> living next door consisting of father & several sons, all of an age to
> have
> shared a glass or two of moonshine with the lady of ill repute). So,
> Linda,
> if I find a male Cook descendant in Union SC to test, is it your
> recommendation that I use familytree and test 67 chromosomes? Martha (T2b,
> 99% Northern Europe) - see why I'm so confused?!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 9:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
> Ireland
>
>
>> Hi Martha, I gather you are not Don Thompson <grin>? (If you are my
>> response may be wrong!)
>>
>> If Don had his y chromosome tested for 67 chromosomes (or more, but not
>> less), then he could upload his results to Ysearch and use it, the
>> database at whatever company he tested, and his surname project to find
>> matches in (or from) Northern Ireland. Just understanding his haplo group
>> would assist him. Ie if his Y chromo was nw Irish and all his close
>> matches were there, it's unlikely his male ancestors came from Scotland.
>> If they had, he'd have matches there. Of course it's not always this
>> simple.
>>
>> In your case, being female, you don't have a Ychromosome to test. To find
>> the place of origin of your male ancestor you'd have to test a brother or
>> father or some male whose surname is the same (ie a direct male
>> descendant) of the ancestor you are researching. If you don't know of
>> one,
>> that's when you roll up the ol' sleeves and do some old fashioned
>> genealogy and find one using modern day resources and techniques like
>> Ancestry. That'll fast start your research so you don't end up (maybe)
>> like your other family members who did research the old fashioned way:
>> mighty old and grumpy and with only a small bush and a lot of theories
>> that you get mad about if anyone suggests they might not be correct. This
>> after 40 years or so <grin>. We can do better. Usually. I haven't made
>> had
>> much success with my Kelly line but I tell myself that's because I
>> haven't
>> tried hard enough. They're still a small bush and I'm already grumpy!
>>
>> No Y chromo either.....but I did my dad (88). He's English so I shouldn't
>> say much about him. An R1 (garden variety Euro male) but of the Frisian
>> type. Big laugh! He's the same haplotype as the royal O'Neills -- who had
>> an NPE (Non Paternity Event) about 900 AD . However I doubt we're
>> responsible as my ancestors stayed on the east side of England, far away
>> from the Irish.
>>
>> The surprises are in the mitochondrial DNA testing. We all have our
>> mothers, but only daughters pass it on to their daughters. Apparently our
>> ancestors traded women. The men stayed in place but the women moved a
>> lot.
>> So my mitochondrial DNA I share with 25% of Arab women as well as a lot
>> of
>> Jewish women. It came to be long before Abraham. My brother in law (an
>> Irish Lockhart) -- his mother, an English Frisbee -- he got email from a
>> man in Iraq whose family escaped from Iran. Druze! His only match is a
>> Druze! Did someone bring a wife back from the Crusades or what?
>>
>> It's confusing. If you want to pursue it, you need to do some reading to
>> make sure you are testing the right individual to tell you want you want.
>>
>> Of course with your mito, you could find matches in northern Ireland on
>> the female side and that would tell you where your female line
>> originated.
>>
>> Linda
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Martha Davis" <>
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 8:23:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
>> Ireland
>>
>> Linda, I tested thru 23and me and was told I'm 99% northern Europe, T2b,
>> but
>> how does that tell me anything about my NI ancestry? Thanks, Martha
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 6:23 PM
>> Subject: Re: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
>> Ireland
>>
>>
>>> Hi Don, got DNA? That might be your fastest and cheapest way to find out
>>> where they came from.
>>> www.familytreedna.com or www.23andme.com.
>>>
>>> Linda Merle
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Don Thompson" <>
>>> To: , ,
>>> , ,
>>> , ,
>>>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 4, 2011 6:09:53 PM
>>> Subject: [S-I] GGG grandparents Thompson / Mc Cullock location in
>>> Ireland
>>>
>>>
>>> Searching for GGG grandparents both born somewhere in Ireland.
>>> Henry Thompson, Sr. was born Nov. 22, 1747 (maybe in the Armagh area,
>>> NI),
>>> and Hannah E. Mc Cullock she went by the name Eleanor (nickname Nellie)
>>> was born in 1771.
>>>
>>>
>>> The family arrived in Orange County New York State in 1801.
>>> In 1803 Henry and Eleanor joined Graham’s Presbyterian Church, Pine
>>> Bush,
>>> Orange Co., N.Y.
>>>
>>>
>>> Henry was married twice, first spouse is unknown. They had 5 children.
>>> Henry and Eleanor also had 5 children that we know of. A possible child
>>> lineage follows:
>>> (1) Henry Thompson Sr. 1747-1829
>>> 1A (first wife) Unknown
>>> 1A1 James Thompson
>>> 1A2 Sally Ann (Ballard) Thompson
>>> 1A3 Nancy (Hurd) Thompson
>>> 1A4 Eleanor (Kilbourne) Thompson
>>> 1A5 Isabel (Mackinson) Thompson
>>>
>>>
>>> 1B Hannah Eleanor Mc Cullock b 1771, d ca 1848
>>> 1B1 Jane (Lawson) Thompson b 1790, Ireland, d 1881 NY
>>> 1B2 Hugh Thompson b 1791, Ireland, d 1849 Drydeb, NY
>>> 1B3 William Henry Thompson, b 1792, Ireland, d 1876 NY
>>> 1B4 Martha (Houtz) Thompson b ca 1798, Ireland, d 1884 Nebraska
>>> 1B5 Henry Thompson Jr. b 4 May, 1803, Montgomery, Orange County,
>>> NY. d 7 March,1896, Elmira, NY
>>>
>>>
>>> The family business was farming and they stayed in the Orange County
>>> area
>>> of New York State until 1817 at witch time they moved to Dryden,
>>> Tompkins
>>> County, N. Y., again farming also was the main family business in
>>> Dryden.
>>>
>>>
>>> Henry Sr. died in Dryden, Tompkins County, N. Y. on July 10, 1829 at the
>>> age of 82. Up until this time the family had been Presbyterian, but as a
>>> result of a Masonic funeral for Henry Sr. versus a Presbyterian pastor
>>> who
>>> was anti-masonic, Henry Jr. became a Baptist, causing a possible
>>> religious
>>> family split, as some family members stayed Presbyterian.
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking for any information and will share info.
>>> Thank you,
>>> Don Thompson
>>> Whittier, California
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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