Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2011-06 > 1307664476
Subject: Re: [S-I] Clan Colla
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 00:07:56 +0000 (UTC)
You may want to search the archives of the r1b1c7 list as it has been discussed there by individuals who can read and interpret both the medieval manuscripts and the the early writers. It is here: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/other/DNA/DNA-R1B1C7.html . The other benefit is these folks are studying the DNA in the context of DNA results and can explain what of the received history is correct and what is hogwash.
This list is about the ethnic group called the Scotch Irish. This doesn't mean "maybe Irish, maybe Scots". It is an American ethnic group comprised of people living (or from) the areas with such large emigration from Ulster that the people's culture formed the predominant culture in the new area (an area larger than Europe). Not all of their ancestors came from Ulster. Others assimilated in, just as all "Americans" do not have ancestors from Britain: some are from China, Russia, Greece, etc, etc, etc. They still eat hotdogs and like football.
It is not about Scots clans. You'll need to find a Scottish list to find people researching Scots clans. In Ulster there were no clans after the destruction of the Irish culture. Before that you had lowland Scots, who didn't have clans even in Roman days, Irish who did, and some highland Scots of various stripes who were affiliated either with an Irish clan or the McDonalds. The reason being Antrim was claimed by the McDonalds as part of their territory. As Scots clans were territorial, to this day, if you can show your ancestors were in Antrim, you can join Ian Mhor.
These old genealogies of Clan Colla, etc, etc, etc, change all the time these days as the DNA guys work over the territory. Their conclusions shift too as more data comes available and they learn to interpret history better. There are several guys on the R1b1c7 list who are experts. There may be others. Some will be very traditional, close minded, kinda of crazy old guys who believe what they've learned but are not clear at all on the 'sacred source'. You'll also find true scientists who can explain what we know today about the variance between the old received histories and the DNA. Somewhere in between, you'll find a place that's comfy.
As this ethnic group and the Ulster Scots, in Ulster, didn't exist till the early 1600s, detailed study of Clan Colla is not at all what we're about. This list is about tracing our ancestors back to Ulster and then in Ulster.
Here's a website that discusses their DNA
etc etc etc!
In Ireland, many with the surname are of Scots Galloglaich or Galloglass origins, meaning they arrived in Ireland in the 1400s or 1500s as mercenary soldiers for the Irish clans. They are found with this surname in every county in Ireland. this information is from "The Book of Scotch Irish Surnames" by Bell. It gives a page overview of the history of the clan, explaining that in Scotland at the beginning of the 17th century they were allied with the Campbells of Argyll but by the end of the century, due to their being Jacobites, they were destroyed by the Campbells and scattered. Some settled in Ireland. These are the late arrivals. Most went to the New World.
In Ireland, the galloglass soldiers assimilated into the Irish and so were Catholic and Irish by the 1600s. Thus they were the enemies of the Ulster Scots. This is not to say that some didn't assimilate into Ulster Scots or Scotch Irish.
Even in America, the Scots clans in exile tended to have different politics than the Scotch Irish. While the Scotch Irish tended to support the American Revolution, the highland Scots clans in exile tended to be Tories. Some research into the political positions of your ancestors in the time of the American Revolution can shed indirect light on where it is likely that your ancestors came from: Ireland or Scotland.
However generally, except for 'fun', we don't have clans here nor did our lowland ancestors. Though my paternal ancestors, the Andersons, were supposedly McDonald clansmen who came to Antrim with the McDonalds in the 1500s, though proving that is another matter...but that's what the fairies say and I sure do believe them! My dad's (real, actual) Scots ancestors were lowlanders and Campbells, which might explain why they fought for 63 years <grin>. I've been unable to hogtie a cousin and extract DNA for testing, but all the Andersons I've seen tested in ANtrim are I's -- Norse -- either by way of Scotland or Irish Norse. Like Somerled. His Y chromo and his paternal ancestors were Norse, not "Clan Colla" at all.
So you may more people with an interest in clan colla on another list, though if you have questions about McCleans in or from Ulster, ask a more specific question and maybe we can help.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:11:46 PM
Subject: [S-I] Clan Colla
They say the Mcclains are descendants of the Clan Colla.
Like to know more about the Clan Colla.
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