Scotch-Irish-L Archives
Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2011-05 > 1305174959
From: Judy Anderson <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 04:35:59 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <448736440.195870.1305132852842.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Linda,
Thank you so much for your expertise...we shall see how much further I can go. This is the best break in almost 12 years but, still not much to go on.
Regards,
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:54:12 AM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, thanks for the explanation -- it does help! I googled for the town name and got some place in County Down. It's usually best to give the county -- I've learned the hard way <grin>....
67 markers is very good. One off with 67 -- I think everyone would agree that they're related, probably quite closely.
Slight aside: we all want things to be black or white. Yes or no. Unfortunately generally nothing is black or white or yes/no. There's always a margin of error, or rather, a change that emerging technologies will impact the conclusion now or in the future.
If you have a DNA match at 67 markers but no place in common, that could well be chance. The experts I listen to do not believe that you can declare two individuals related with nothing else. However you have a place in common. Therefore it is very very likely that they are related. If after a year or so of working with Family Tree DNA's 111 test, the experts start modifying their opinions on this, you'll have to reconsider. It's exactly the same situation as you publishing your life-opus on the family and then discovering a will that debunks a whole line of your work. Arrrg!! Hey, you did the best you could with what evidence you had at the time. However new evidence manifests. Time for Rev 2 of the book!! DNA technology changes nothing, but because it is new it evolves faster.
However to repeat, 1 off on 67 markers all from the north end of County Antrim -- a match.
Many people spend a very long time trying to figure out where in Ireland the ancestor came from. You've figured that out.
Where do you go from here? you need to collect more data. Clearly you can focus on the locale in Antrim, checking all the sources you can find. Some of these are 'all Ireland' or all county sources. Ideally you can determine the estate the two men came from and delve into estate records. It's impossible to tell you , not knowing the economic status of these people, what you can expect to find. Assuming they are the majority: poor Protestant farmers, you won't find much as you move back into the 1700s that will allow you to create a family tree. You can learn a lot that will make for interesting narratives in your family book.
If you remain stuck with the notion that family history is a family tree, then you're stuck. If you can free yourself of that limitation, you can do work. Just speaking as someone who is writing about a family who left Tyrone about 1770. I found a lot of evidence related to them back to the 1400s, most of it speculative in nature, but where it supports the current theories regarding the DNA (ie what clan they probably belonged to, where they would have lived if members of this clan, etc), it's interesting.
These days it's fairly easy to review a lot of Irish records quickly using websites like Ancestry, the Family History Library (website and film) and a library or two. Hundreds of times easier than just ten years ago. Then you can focus your time in Northern Ireland on records you can't get elsewhere or have a nice vacation. Or hire someone to complete the research.
Supposedly my mother's Andersons are Andersons from the same area. They left about 1770 as well and settled in Old Mother Cumberland until after the Revolution. They were Covenantors, musical, carpenters, and frequently red haired. No DNA from a cousin yet. They're busying frying up deer burgers up in the hills.
If this is confusing and you want to try talking, send me privately your phone number and a time and I'll phone on my Magic Jack. Sometimes it really helps to talk in person.
Offf to tai chi class!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Linda,
I am going to try to rewrite this better:
My ancester traveled with a man from Ballyhemlin, Antrim, Ireland. Ballyhemlin being a stones throw from Bushmill's , Antrim, Ireland. I know the man was from Ballyhemlin based on the will he left when he died. I do not know exactly where my ancestor came from in Antrim but assumed because his friend was from Ballyhemlin he lived close to that area. (Based on the times)
We just got a DNA match 67 markers 1 distance with the last name Anderson. The matches ancestor came from Bushmill's, Antrim, Ireland. Paper trails are good after Ireland.. So my question is how to proceed. It doesn't sound as if 67 markers is much proof.
Regards
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 5:59:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy,
You are saying you have the presumed point of origin of the ancestor as supported by a friend or neighbor who lived near him all his life?
And you have a DNA match with someone who also emigrated to a different place????
It would seem that you are trying to prove that the man came from Ballyhemlin (presumedly, County Down??)? Unless the 67 marker match has a good paper trail back to this area of County Down, you may need to do some research to find a person with the right name, etc, in the area (or descended from such a person via a good paper trail) and test him.
The problem I'm having is I don't know enough.
Since you know where he may have come from, probably you've vacuumed up what you can from Raymond's site and others regarding the surname in that area. Presumably you know his religion and the instances of the surname in congregations close by, even if later than your ancestor.
You should be working with the Ulster Heritage DNA project: Does it have other close matches nearby?
So tell us more about who this 67 marker match is and what info you have on him.
It's not terribly hard to trace down descendants of people with the same surname in your village in County Down. If you can't find any locally, I suggest you check for emigrants in Australia and New Zealand as they kept much better records and it is more likely their village of origin is noted on ship lists and death records.
But if the 67 marker match has a paper trail to the same village you might have all the proof you need.
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 8:30:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Linda,
Just when you think you have it sacked! This is soooooo complicated. Each family has paper trail from the US to Canada or to Canada from Ireland.
So now I need some opinion when our immigrant ancestor left Ireland he was with a man we know was from Ballyhemlin. I know this from his will. This man left family behind which I also know from the will. I have just gone on the assumption that these two men had to have lived in close proximity in North Antrim. They never parted until their deaths they were neighbors.
So now I am totally lost as what direction to go. If DNA keeps changing. Any ideas?
Thanks Linda.
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 5:59:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy,
You are saying you have the presumed point of origin of the ancestor as supported by a friend or neighbor who lived near him all his life?
And you have a DNA match with someone who also emigrated to a different place????
It would seem that you are trying to prove that the man came from Ballyhemlin (presumedly, County Down??)? Unless the 67 marker match has a good paper trail back to this area of County Down, you may need to do some research to find a person with the right name, etc, in the area (or descended from such a person via a good paper trail) and test him.
The problem I'm having is I don't know enough.
Since you know where he may have come from, probably you've vacuumed up what you can from Raymond's site and others regarding the surname in that area. Presumably you know his religion and the instances of the surname in congregations close by, even if later than your ancestor.
You should be working with the Ulster Heritage DNA project: Does it have other close matches nearby?
So tell us more about who this 67 marker match is and what info you have on him.
It's not terribly hard to trace down descendants of people with the same surname in your village in County Down. If you can't find any locally, I suggest you check for emigrants in Australia and New Zealand as they kept much better records and it is more likely their village of origin is noted on ship lists and death records.
But if the 67 marker match has a paper trail to the same village you might have all the proof you need.
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 8:30:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Linda,
Just when you think you have it sacked! This is soooooo complicated. Each family has paper trail from the US to Canada or to Canada from Ireland.
So now I need some opinion when our immigrant ancestor left Ireland he was with a man we know was from Ballyhemlin. I know this from his will. This man left family behind which I also know from the will. I have just gone on the assumption that these two men had to have lived in close proximity in North Antrim. They never parted until their deaths they were neighbors.
So now I am totally lost as what direction to go. If DNA keeps changing. Any ideas?
Thanks Linda.
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:54:12 AM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, thanks for the explanation -- it does help! I googled for the town name and got some place in County Down. It's usually best to give the county -- I've learned the hard way <grin>....
67 markers is very good. One off with 67 -- I think everyone would agree that they're related, probably quite closely.
Slight aside: we all want things to be black or white. Yes or no. Unfortunately generally nothing is black or white or yes/no. There's always a margin of error, or rather, a change that emerging technologies will impact the conclusion now or in the future.
If you have a DNA match at 67 markers but no place in common, that could well be chance. The experts I listen to do not believe that you can declare two individuals related with nothing else. However you have a place in common. Therefore it is very very likely that they are related. If after a year or so of working with Family Tree DNA's 111 test, the experts start modifying their opinions on this, you'll have to reconsider. It's exactly the same situation as you publishing your life-opus on the family and then discovering a will that debunks a whole line of your work. Arrrg!! Hey, you did the best you could with what evidence you had at the time. However new evidence manifests. Time for Rev 2 of the book!! DNA technology changes nothing, but because it is new it evolves faster.
However to repeat, 1 off on 67 markers all from the north end of County Antrim -- a match.
Many people spend a very long time trying to figure out where in Ireland the ancestor came from. You've figured that out.
Where do you go from here? you need to collect more data. Clearly you can focus on the locale in Antrim, checking all the sources you can find. Some of these are 'all Ireland' or all county sources. Ideally you can determine the estate the two men came from and delve into estate records. It's impossible to tell you , not knowing the economic status of these people, what you can expect to find. Assuming they are the majority: poor Protestant farmers, you won't find much as you move back into the 1700s that will allow you to create a family tree. You can learn a lot that will make for interesting narratives in your family book.
If you remain stuck with the notion that family history is a family tree, then you're stuck. If you can free yourself of that limitation, you can do work. Just speaking as someone who is writing about a family who left Tyrone about 1770. I found a lot of evidence related to them back to the 1400s, most of it speculative in nature, but where it supports the current theories regarding the DNA (ie what clan they probably belonged to, where they would have lived if members of this clan, etc), it's interesting.
These days it's fairly easy to review a lot of Irish records quickly using websites like Ancestry, the Family History Library (website and film) and a library or two. Hundreds of times easier than just ten years ago. Then you can focus your time in Northern Ireland on records you can't get elsewhere or have a nice vacation. Or hire someone to complete the research.
Supposedly my mother's Andersons are Andersons from the same area. They left about 1770 as well and settled in Old Mother Cumberland until after the Revolution. They were Covenantors, musical, carpenters, and frequently red haired. No DNA from a cousin yet. They're busying frying up deer burgers up in the hills.
If this is confusing and you want to try talking, send me privately your phone number and a time and I'll phone on my Magic Jack. Sometimes it really helps to talk in person.
Offf to tai chi class!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Linda,
I am going to try to rewrite this better:
My ancester traveled with a man from Ballyhemlin, Antrim, Ireland. Ballyhemlin being a stones throw from Bushmill's , Antrim, Ireland. I know the man was from Ballyhemlin based on the will he left when he died. I do not know exactly where my ancestor came from in Antrim but assumed because his friend was from Ballyhemlin he lived close to that area. (Based on the times)
We just got a DNA match 67 markers 1 distance with the last name Anderson. The matches ancestor came from Bushmill's, Antrim, Ireland. Paper trails are good after Ireland.. So my question is how to proceed. It doesn't sound as if 67 markers is much proof.
Regards
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 5:59:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy,
You are saying you have the presumed point of origin of the ancestor as supported by a friend or neighbor who lived near him all his life?
And you have a DNA match with someone who also emigrated to a different place????
It would seem that you are trying to prove that the man came from Ballyhemlin (presumedly, County Down??)? Unless the 67 marker match has a good paper trail back to this area of County Down, you may need to do some research to find a person with the right name, etc, in the area (or descended from such a person via a good paper trail) and test him.
The problem I'm having is I don't know enough.
Since you know where he may have come from, probably you've vacuumed up what you can from Raymond's site and others regarding the surname in that area. Presumably you know his religion and the instances of the surname in congregations close by, even if later than your ancestor.
You should be working with the Ulster Heritage DNA project: Does it have other close matches nearby?
So tell us more about who this 67 marker match is and what info you have on him.
It's not terribly hard to trace down descendants of people with the same surname in your village in County Down. If you can't find any locally, I suggest you check for emigrants in Australia and New Zealand as they kept much better records and it is more likely their village of origin is noted on ship lists and death records.
But if the 67 marker match has a paper trail to the same village you might have all the proof you need.
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 8:30:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Linda,
Just when you think you have it sacked! This is soooooo complicated. Each family has paper trail from the US to Canada or to Canada from Ireland.
So now I need some opinion when our immigrant ancestor left Ireland he was with a man we know was from Ballyhemlin. I know this from his will. This man left family behind which I also know from the will. I have just gone on the assumption that these two men had to have lived in close proximity in North Antrim. They never parted until their deaths they were neighbors.
So now I am totally lost as what direction to go. If DNA keeps changing. Any ideas?
Thanks Linda.
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 5:59:44 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy,
You are saying you have the presumed point of origin of the ancestor as supported by a friend or neighbor who lived near him all his life?
And you have a DNA match with someone who also emigrated to a different place????
It would seem that you are trying to prove that the man came from Ballyhemlin (presumedly, County Down??)? Unless the 67 marker match has a good paper trail back to this area of County Down, you may need to do some research to find a person with the right name, etc, in the area (or descended from such a person via a good paper trail) and test him.
The problem I'm having is I don't know enough.
Since you know where he may have come from, probably you've vacuumed up what you can from Raymond's site and others regarding the surname in that area. Presumably you know his religion and the instances of the surname in congregations close by, even if later than your ancestor.
You should be working with the Ulster Heritage DNA project: Does it have other close matches nearby?
So tell us more about who this 67 marker match is and what info you have on him.
It's not terribly hard to trace down descendants of people with the same surname in your village in County Down. If you can't find any locally, I suggest you check for emigrants in Australia and New Zealand as they kept much better records and it is more likely their village of origin is noted on ship lists and death records.
But if the 67 marker match has a paper trail to the same village you might have all the proof you need.
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 8:30:43 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Linda,
Just when you think you have it sacked! This is soooooo complicated. Each family has paper trail from the US to Canada or to Canada from Ireland.
So now I need some opinion when our immigrant ancestor left Ireland he was with a man we know was from Ballyhemlin. I know this from his will. This man left family behind which I also know from the will. I have just gone on the assumption that these two men had to have lived in close proximity in North Antrim. They never parted until their deaths they were neighbors.
So now I am totally lost as what direction to go. If DNA keeps changing. Any ideas?
Thanks Linda.
Judy
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
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----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 4:54:30 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] DNA
Hi Judy, most would say that's a match. However the gurus may debate depending on the exact marker or other characteristics of the familiar DNA. Most would also want some kind of paper trail verification. Sixty seven points of comparision, given the complexity of just the Y chromie isn't very exact at all. It is possible to match someone that you have nothing in common with. The match could have come about various ways besides direct heredity: two independent mutations or even back mutations (DNA continued to mutate but 'back' towards an ancestral pattern).
The DNA Newbie list at rootsweb might be able to give you a better explanation. If it's in Ulster and both are a member of the Ulster Heritage DNA project, the admin may be able to respond with an affirmation of relatedness.
I just asked the R1b1c7 list about two samples and they ignored me, being heavily embroiled in a discussion on medieval Campbell lines and what DNA proves (apparently that the Lamonts descend from the Campbells). With the Newbie lists, you don't get ignored as often. It's hard to compete with some long dead Campbells!!
Over on the Genealogy DNA lsit they're discussing 111 markers and what's in the test and what seems to be missing and what it all means. Beats me!!
However the rest of us will buy you a Guinness if you show up nearby. Good work!
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Anderson" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2011 7:42:49 PM
Subject: [S-I] DNA
Hello,
Last week I enquired about 25 marker perfect matches. Today I am hoping to get a better understanding of 67 marker perfect matches with a distance of one. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank You
Judy
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
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| Re: [S-I] DNA by Judy Anderson <> |