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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2011-03 > 1299901798


From: "Sarah" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Johnsons of the Iroquois
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 21:50:16 -0600
References: <460900810.2524499.1299873151537.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <460900810.2524499.1299873151537.JavaMail.root@sz0165a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>


Hi Jerry,
I was wondering if your Johnsons had sisters ?? Two of my Flemings
married Johnson sisters in early yrs...........Jane and Martha I
believe..........The Flemings were James and John. They came to USA in
1720-30s into MD and PA. OH for a good look at the family Bible ....its in
NI and guarded very well.........no one gets to look at it and it would
solve soooo many problems.


From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 1:52 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Johnsons of the Iroquois


> Hi Jerry, except that it is certainly unscientific (and ungenealogical as
> well) to assume that because Johnson's family came from County Meath that
> his ancestors belonged to a particular Irish tribe! Especially when the
> county is Meath, which has seen in the past much immigration and
> disruption -- especially of Irish tribes. And isn't well known for being
> richly populated with O'Neills.
>
> The only way to know for sure is to test his DNA. As far as I know, and I
> may be out of date here, his descendants in Canada refuse to agree to have
> their DNA tested.
>
> Plus some of the old lineages of the O'Neills are wrong, according to DNA
> evidence, so without gathering some DNA and doing some testing, it's a bit
> risky to make broad claims based on the on lineages. Esp. about a name
> like Johnson in a place like Meath! Hoots, man, they could be Welsh as the
> Normans are believed to have lugged over their tenants from their estates
> in the Pale.
>
> So if we find a lot of Iroquois with one Irish DNA marker, we could deduce
> that this is his DNA, but we then again we may be wrong so such a
> deduction would need to be made quite tentatively . If put on the stand in
> a court of law and asked "Did you test the DNA of known descendants of Wm
> J?", you'd have to say No. (You could say yes, but when pressed to produce
> the test you'd end up looking a bit like a certain crazy American actor!).
> If asked "Do you know the Y DNA signature of Wm. J?" You'd have to say No,
> but...." and the lawyer would say "No further questions" and you'd scamper
> back to your seat.
>
> This is aside from the second issue of then proving that a DNA sample that
> you know represents Wm. J's DNA is O'Neillian. Not as hard to do, but not
> black or white either, since the he could match the main line (up in
> Ulster -- not sure how the royal O'Neills would end up in Meath) which is
> not Irish at all but Frisian due to an NPE of some sort a thousand years
> ago or he could match the DNA of the electing clans. Of course they're not
> in Meath either. But these people did have legs and could move about.
>
> But if I'm out of date and you can actually prove this, will you share the
> source?
>
> Linda Merle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Kelly" <>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 1:32:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Johnsons of the Iroquois
>
> Adding to Linda's good information below, in William Johnson's case,
> "Johnson" was a cover name for Mac Séan (the Ulster dialect version of
> 'Son of John', pronounced 'MacShane' in English), which is a branch of the
> Ó Néill (Grandson of Niall) family, which in turn is a branch of the
> Cinéal nEoghain (Kinship of Eoghan) of the Uí Néill In Tuaiscirt (Uí Néill
> of the north) of the Uí Néill (Descendants of Niall) of the Connachta
> (Descendants of Conn - here we're dealing with the major pre-Christian
> tribe which gave their name to Connacht) of the Féine (variously
> translated as 'nobles', 'free people', etc.) The Connachta took the area
> called Connacht by about the 4th Century A.D. from another people called
> the Fir nOl nÉcmacht. Niall's sons, including Johnson's ancestor Eoghan,
> expanded into Ulster in the mid-5th Century A.D.
>
>
> Go raibh sé sin cabhrach / Hope that's helpful.
>
>
> Le gach dea-ghuí / Best,
> Jerry
>
> Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press
> www.druidpress.com
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: ""
> <>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:01 AM
> Subject: SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 45
>>
>>The old Iroquis tribes -- apparently many, maybe hundreds, of Indian
>>maidens were presented to William Johnson (a lad from Ireland, too), who
>>was accepted as an Indian and it was a big thing to have his baby.
>>Apparently his descendants were Loyalists who later moved to Canada. His
>>known descendants, and they refuse to allow DNA testing. If this is true,
>>though, a certain amount of Irish DnA went into these tribes in the early
>>1700s -- and got pushed west and north by events.
>>
>>Linda Merle
>
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