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From:
Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Johnsons of the Iroquois
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 19:52:31 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <854937.56521.qm@web180709.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


Hi Jerry, except that it is certainly unscientific (and ungenealogical as well) to assume that because Johnson's family came from County Meath that his ancestors belonged to a particular Irish tribe! Especially when the county is Meath, which has seen in the past much immigration and disruption -- especially of Irish tribes. And isn't well known for being richly populated with O'Neills.

The only way to know for sure is to test his DNA. As far as I know, and I may be out of date here, his descendants in Canada refuse to agree to have their DNA tested.

Plus some of the old lineages of the O'Neills are wrong, according to DNA evidence, so without gathering some DNA and doing some testing, it's a bit risky to make broad claims based on the on lineages. Esp. about a name like Johnson in a place like Meath! Hoots, man, they could be Welsh as the Normans are believed to have lugged over their tenants from their estates in the Pale.

So if we find a lot of Iroquois with one Irish DNA marker, we could deduce that this is his DNA, but we then again we may be wrong so such a deduction would need to be made quite tentatively . If put on the stand in a court of law and asked "Did you test the DNA of known descendants of Wm J?", you'd have to say No. (You could say yes, but when pressed to produce the test you'd end up looking a bit like a certain crazy American actor!). If asked "Do you know the Y DNA signature of Wm. J?" You'd have to say No, but...." and the lawyer would say "No further questions" and you'd scamper back to your seat.

This is aside from the second issue of then proving that a DNA sample that you know represents Wm. J's DNA is O'Neillian. Not as hard to do, but not black or white either, since the he could match the main line (up in Ulster -- not sure how the royal O'Neills would end up in Meath) which is not Irish at all but Frisian due to an NPE of some sort a thousand years ago or he could match the DNA of the electing clans. Of course they're not in Meath either. But these people did have legs and could move about.

But if I'm out of date and you can actually prove this, will you share the source?

Linda Merle

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Kelly" <>
To:
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2011 1:32:00 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Johnsons of the Iroquois

Adding to Linda's good information below, in William Johnson's case, "Johnson" was a cover name for Mac Séan (the Ulster dialect version of 'Son of John', pronounced 'MacShane' in English), which is a branch of the Ó Néill (Grandson of Niall) family, which in turn is a branch of the Cinéal nEoghain (Kinship of Eoghan) of the Uí Néill In Tuaiscirt (Uí Néill of the north) of the Uí Néill (Descendants of Niall) of the Connachta (Descendants of Conn - here we're dealing with the major pre-Christian tribe which gave their name to Connacht) of the Féine (variously translated as 'nobles', 'free people', etc.) The Connachta took the area called Connacht by about the 4th Century A.D. from another people called the Fir nOl nÉcmacht. Niall's sons, including Johnson's ancestor Eoghan, expanded into Ulster in the mid-5th Century A.D.


Go raibh sé sin cabhrach / Hope that's helpful.


Le gach dea-ghuí / Best,
Jerry

Cló an Druaidh / The Druid Press
www.druidpress.com



________________________________
From: "" <>
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:01 AM
Subject: SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 6, Issue 45
>
>The old Iroquis tribes -- apparently many, maybe hundreds, of Indian maidens were presented to William Johnson (a lad from Ireland, too), who was accepted as an Indian and it was a big thing to have his baby. Apparently his descendants were Loyalists who later moved to Canada. His known descendants, and they refuse to allow DNA testing. If this is true, though, a certain amount of Irish DnA went into these tribes in the early 1700s -- and got pushed west and north by events.
>
>Linda Merle

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