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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2010-03 > 1268091464
From:
Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 23:37:44 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <B91600BB6E4F4FF2A10C308E5A83B062@Annandale>
Hi Cliff, this, I have been told, is why Irish people don't like to do genealogy: They fear finding out they are we
(and vise versa).
The Irish employed many many Scots galloglass (in Irisn means foreign soldier) in the late middle ages, including down through Cork. They were housed, according to Irish custom, in the one room houses of the
unfortunate tenants of the chief, where they no doubt preyed on the poor fellow's wife and daughters. I
researched a Mulvihill from Limerick who turned out to match the ones from Kerry, who, he was told, were
Scots in origin. All very Catholic...but probably their ancestors was also Catholic as well. Out of
the three regions of Scotland, Presbyterianism was only associated with one -- the middle. The border
people and the highlanders were often Catholic -- because the guys in the middle were Presbyterian <grin>!
So Scottish genes may not be anything as embarrassing as ourselves but something more respectable--
from their perspective <grin>.
We're not bugs and other lower life forms whose genes seem to determine everything -- we can
be different from our ancestors as culture and ethnicity are learned behaviors. We all prefer to have
ancestors who 'match' our current identity but it makes no difference if we don't have them. We can still
drink our preferred brand of whiskey (or continue to make our own).
Now we need a new line of Hallmark cards to send to friends who have received DNA results with
comforting words for those who find unpleasant surprises.
Linda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff. Johnston" <>
To:
Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 5:32:23 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan
Linda,
You beat me to the punch :-) Yes, it is impossible to tell via Y-DNA
testing how much scotch or irish one has in oneself unless it came in a
bottle ;-)
By the way, FWIW, my wife's family are Casey - staunch R.C.. Don't ask how
I survived as a Presbyterian at their gatherings, but we love each other :-)
...lol... They all claim to have an unbroken line of Irish R.C.s going back
to Saint Paddy himself... Last month I posted some of their family
information on the Co. Cork site and had FTDNA send my brother-in-law a
Y-DNA test kit. I also checked with FTDNAs Casey group. Much to my surprise
guess what I found!!! The Casey lines there trace their ancestry back to
Scotland and Protestants. Now that was a shocking suprise and a half.
Needless to say my wife's Casey family has not commented on that...yet...
;-)
Cliff. Johnston
"May the best you've ever seen,
Be the worst you'll ever see;"
from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Mitchell, Scotch/Irish New York to Michigan
> Hi Richard,
>
> This doesn't quite make sense to me:
>>My FTDNA, (67 Y Markers Tested), shows overwhelming Scotch and Irish
>>ancestry with Irish being slightly higher than Scotch.
>
> Thats not how Y DNA results are reported (in any useful fashion). Are you
> refering to the familytreedna page of Recent Ancestral Origins? That's not
> accurate at all. It just sees where people that match you (who have
> origins) come from. A lot don't list origins and some are wrong.
>
> Go with your haplogroup. The haplogroup is of course fuzzy too for a
> couple reasons: We don't know where they originated (though the scientists
> have theories -- which change every two years) and who cares -- we want to
> know where your immediate ancestors were living. If you turn up NW Irish,
> you can assume they were in Ulster or nearby areas of Scotland -- ie it
> gives you some clues.
>
> What's the haplogroup? And who do you match to? You may find matches with
> a different
> surname because surnames are fairly recent, but they're a clue. If you
> tell us a few of
> them, maybe we can tell from the surnames where they might have come from,
> unless it was
> Glasgow....same surnames in parts of Glasgow as in northern Ireland
> because so many
> went over.
>
> The point is though that these are statistical and your unique history is
> unique and not based on statistics. You use the statistics to figure out
> where the best places are to search.
>
> You don't have enough info to search in Scotland. You need to follow
> George back through the censuses as far as you can. You might find him
> living as a child in a household with his parents. Anyway the census work
> will give you an approximate date of birth. Then censuses also tell you
> where he was born -- what state. You should also try to find an obit for
> him and see if you can view the actual death record, not a death
> certificate. This is dependent on the state he died in. What state did he
> die in?
>
> You also need to gather all his siblings, their dates of birth and where
> they were born
> from the censuses. These are clues, esp. ones born in Scotland. There are
> plenty of James Mitchells there, but with the names of children and maybe
> spouse, you can narrow it down. Since he was born in the USA and his
> father in Scotland probably his father was in the USA at the time of his
> birth and you can trace him backwards in the censuses. Then you look for a
> naturalization record. If he was in the USA in 1812, if he was not
> naturalized he should be listed as an alien. the book is in Ancestry. You
> want to search for a naturalization record for the father and then first
> papers. The first papers are more likely to nail down his origins. However
> the people who stood for him are critical people. Like in the case of a
> client of mine whose ancstors claimed to be Scots, the men who stood for
> him when he naturalized were both first generation Irish. They didn't
> randomly go somewhere in the USA -- they went to where other people from
> the family and/or village went. It's called c!
> hain migration. So you always look up those guys in the censuses and see
> what you can learn about them. They are clues.
>
> Similarly, one of the sons of the Rev. John Black, who also became a
> minister, witnessed the
> will of a Kelly ancestor of mine. Why? He died north of the Allegheny and
> this man's church
> was in Wilkinsburg. Because of some previous tie, that's why. There were
> Kellys associated
> with the Reformed Presbyterian church in Wilkinsburg but so far I've not
> found the origins
> of mine -- but it is an important clue to where they were before they
> manifested in Indiana
> Twp (Allegheny Co).
>
>>I apologise to any of those who I may have offended on the list,
>
> Actually I did more offending than you today. You didn't offend anyone at
> all.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Linda Merle
>
>
>
>
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