Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2009-01 > 1231370170
From: "Cliff. Johnston" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] Need Ulster DNA list?
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:16:16 -0600
I'll second that!
>From what I've seen on our Johnston/es I'm amazed at the diversity. Granted
that the Celtic lines predominate, but there are all sorts of others
including our Danish Viking. Thinking that one is going to need an Irish
DNA site or find an Irish DNA that most Irish will be able to relate to is
wishful thinking. Once some knowledge is gained on the subject then it
"May the best you've ever seen,
Be the worst you'll ever see;"
from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Need Ulster DNA list?
> Hi David,
> The entire Irish DNA universe is traditionally organized around the four
> green fields -- the four ancient divisions of Ireland, who were settled by
> different peoples. Ulster is the one to the north. Research has shown
> distinctive regional DNA variants in Ireland. You can join the Irish
> Heritage DNA project and when the results come in, you are passed off to
> the right quadrant. The admins can often 'eyeball' the DNA and tell which
> quad. Specialist admins in, say, the Ulster DNA project, and often
> 'eyeball' which county your ancestors came from. The Ulster fella in
> particular can point you to matches in Scotland. As Scotland has been long
> next to Ulster and secondly, Scotland was colonized BY Ulstermen, there is
> not a lot of difference between the two. There ARE differences between DNA
> in, say, Connacht and Ulster. If you can't be 'placed' your DNA is in the
> spreadsheets and databases. Tomorrow, next week, whenever, a match will
> So since pragmatically, practically, this works, so any discussion should
> match what works.
> Alas -- there is no difference between "Scots Irish" and Ulster Irish DNA.
> Scots Irish DNA IS Ulster Irish DNA. Some people who are Catholic find
> their ancestors came from Scotland and many people who think their
> ancestors are Scots find out they are Irish. And of course some will find
> their Y chromosome's roots are in England, Holland, France, etc. Right
> now, the world's experts in these work for free for you in these DNA
> These ethnic divisions are just that: ethnic. Culture. Learned behavior.
> They have no bearing on DNA. The same is true in Lebanon. Both Christians
> and Moslems have the same DNA: Phoenician (last time I checked...this
> stuff changes!). With an admix of Euro-DNA from the (ahem) Crusades (a
> million pardons).
> So when you go into the DNA stuff you gotta widen the mind a little, open
> it to new possibilities. These don't have to impact your ethnic identity
> at all. You got a lot of other chromosomes -- all bigger than your Y, and
> passed down to you from many different ancestors. 400 years is a drop in
> the bucket in terms of DNA.
> If you don't know where in Ireland your Protestant family came from, then
> join the Irish Heritage DNA project. That's one of its purposes: ID your
> quadrant of origin and pass you off to better hands. There's plenty of
> Scot DNA in all the counties of Ireland, sometimes brought by the
> Galloglass soldiers in the Middle Ages. Of course their descendents are
> Catholic, largely, just like them. I have a client, descended from
> Catholics in Limerick, whose DNA is possibly some kinda Scot DNA from
> Kerry...... It hasn't stopped him from attending Mass, changing his drink
> of choice, nor has he taken up Ullans as a second language. He has a
> unique marker that only the Kerry family has. If you match him -- you
> would know right where your ancestors lived. It saved us from searching in
> Clare, because 'tradition has it' -- the surname came from Clare. Some
> families with the same su rname in nearby parishes in Limerick ARE from
> Clare, according to the DNA, but his were on the road from Kerry.!
> Not surprisingly, someone hiked up the road from Kerry to Limerick. The
> unique identifier was found by the surname project admin and his
> assistants. So it's kinda a funnel: start with Ireland, then the results
> come in. You are sent off to your quad. Maybe you are then sent to
> Scotland or County Armagh. Whatever. You participate in the surname
> project too. ....this is very important was well.
> Does this work ? YES YES YES. I have myself located the place of origin in
> Ireland of colonial American families using this methodology.
> A SI DNA list is not a useful idea. One hundred percent of the so- called
> "Scotch Irish" , only 400 years ago were something else. One hundred
> percent! This is a very young ethnic group. Some were Irish. Some were
> McDonald galloglass. Some were England. Some lowland Scots. Some highland
> Scots. Some were Dutch or Welsh, or Norse assimilated into the Gaelic
> Nations (meaning western Scotland, the Isles, and Ireland). But there was
> NO Scotch Irish till the early 1600s. So besides trying to locate where in
> Ireland you match people, you will always find earlier roots -- somewhere.
> In Ireland, Scotland, England (etc, etc etc).
> Anyway, that's why a SI DNA list would serve no useful purpose. As we
> already know, even much older ethnic groups like the Lebanese factions
> have the same DNA, big picture. Ditto for us as most in Ulster have some
> connections at some point in the past to Scotland and ditto for western
> Scots. Aren't people on both banks of the Mississippi rather alike? The
> waterways were the superhighways of the past. Land travel was difficult.
> So you gotta think of the Irish sea as a super highway. Everything on one
> side is on the other side too. Just like the two shores of the Ohio.
> I am not putting the URL here. You new people -- the only way you will
> find your ancestors is to learn how to do research. Research tip #1:
> GOOGLE. Google for everything. Google now for Irish Heritage DNA project.
> If you were in a course on doing research your assignments would be
> looking up all kinds of things till it was second nature to you. Googling
> is one of the things you have to learn to do till it is second nature.
> Every day that becomes even truer and truer as more and more stuff is
> added to the Internet. No excuses....Google.
> I've posted the URLs before, so you can search the list archives. (google
> for Scotch-Irish rootsweb and you'll find the list URL -- I always google
> to get it. Takes less time than trying to find it in my saved URLs).
> Linda Merle
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