Scotch-Irish-L Archives

Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2009-01 > 1231214865


From:
Subject: Re: [S-I] Scots in Ulster
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 23:07:45 EST


I guess I'll have to send it to your personal email. I tried on this email,
but it was too big and wouldn't go through.

Bonnie


In a message dated 1/5/2009 8:48:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
writes:

Bonnie,

I've made a spreadsheet for our Johnstons in Poldean, I haplogroup - Danish
Vikings in Scotland. I can take a look at your I haplogroup, but I don't
know just what I'll be able to tell you. It would be interesting to see how
close you are to us. I could also compare yours to the other Viking Y-DNA
tests that I have access to.

There are 2 easy ways to let me have a look at the test results. One is to
just send me the Kit # and Password to me via my personal email if you used
FTDNA. The other is to do a cut-and-paste from the FTDNA site or wherever
you have the results.

Cliff.
"May the best you've ever seen,
Be the worst you'll ever see;"
from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Scots in Ulster


>I already know the haplogroup. They have already been tested, and I have
>the
> results. If you want me to send it to you, I'll need an email address.
>
> Bonnie
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2009 8:28:12 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> writes:
>
> I just finished looking through 8 pages of DNA lists on RootsWeb. There
> are
>
> lists for various surnames and then there are lists for the individual
> haplogroups.
>
> At this point I'd suggest that you have the Y-DNA tested, find out what
> haplogroup you're dealing with and then go join the appropriate list(s).
>
> With the little information that you've supplied, this is the best that I
> can do.
>
> Good hunting,
>
> Cliff.
> "May the best you've ever seen,
> Be the worst you'll ever see;"
> from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] Scots in Ulster
>
>
>> Where is the Y DNA site? Thanks!
>>
>> Bonnie O'Neil
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 1/5/2009 4:32:11 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>> writes:
>>
>> Have you had the Y-DNA tested?
>>
>> If so, you need to go over to the Y-DNA site and ask there. If the
> Y-DNA
>> is
>> of Viking ancestry then Dr. Ken Nordtvedt will probably volunteer some
>> assistance (he's considered to be the foremost authority on the I
>> haplogroup. If the Y-DNA is Celtic or something else then perhaps
>> someone
>> else can assist.
>>
>> Cliff. Johnston
>> "May the best you've ever seen,
>> Be the worst you'll ever see;"
>> from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [S-I] Scots in Ulster
>>
>>
>>> Linda,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if you have a male pattern DNA sample if you can tell
>>> if
>>> that DNA is Irish, Scotch, etc. I have belonged to the Coil
>>> Connections
>>> for a
>>> long time. We have the DNA of my ancestor, but everyone is not totally
>>> in
>>> agreement as to where he originated. He did live in a Scotch-Irish
>>> settlement in
>>> Virginia in the 1700's. The leader of this group says that does not
>>> prove
>>> that
>>> they were Scots-Irish, though. Valentine Coile originally spelled his
>>> name
>>> Coyle. Then changed it to Coile, and from there it went to Coil.
>>> Valentine's
>>> son, Gabriel, married a Skidmore. Some people in the group think he
>>> may
>>> have
>>> been German, Dutch, Swiss. The rest of the brother's did marry German
>>> women. I
>>> don't know about you, but I never heard of a German with the last name
>>> of
>>> Coil! If you can shed any light on this subject, I would appreciate
>>> it!
>>>
>>> Bonnie
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 1/5/2009 1:46:30 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>>> writes:
>>>
>>> Hi Don,
>>>
>>> One of the unfortunate consequences of populist, historical renditions
>>> is
>>> that we cannot use it to do genealogy because our families are
>>> different
>>> from
>>> the populist historical rendition. The one I'm referring to is the
>>> "Ulster
>>> Scots" myth. Actually, if you read any history of the Ulster
>>> plantations,
>>> you'll
>>> learn there were plenty of other people there: lots of English, for
>>> example.
>>> There was also a 'lost' Welsh colony in the late 1500s in the Belfast
>>> area
>>> whose surnames do survive (I learned this reading a history of
>>> Ulster!
>>> Imagine
>>> that!!), lots of Germans, French, Dutch, yadda yadda. Furthermore
>>> there
>>> were
>>> Protestants of many types all over Ireland, including.... Irish
>>> people!
>>> There were colonies of Germans right there in Ulster. Not to mention
>>> lots
>>> of
>>> Irish people.
>>>
>>> The Protestants tended to prefer to believe that their ancestors were
>>> not
>>> Irish, due to sectarianism and, well, just plain ignorance. Our
>>> ancestors
>>> didn't have any training in family history. Their memories were
>>> faulty.
>>> They had
>>> fantasies, just like us. So "Scots' is a tag for "Proddy". Your
>>> ancestor
>>> was
>>> trying to distinguish himself from the Irish. Many Ulster Protestants
>>> were of
>>> Irish origins. The DNA proves it -- and so does a check of the
>>> surnames.
>>> Among my Covenantor ancestors there were many Irish and possibly
>>> Irish
>>> su
>>> rnames.
>>> They tell me right where they came from --the north coast. I suspect
>>> they
>>> didn't even realize that some of their surnames were Irish.
>>>
>>> Your surname is rare, not Scots (though nothing kept your ancestors
>>> nailed
>>> down in a parish somewhere's in Europe. Most of the 'well known'
>>> Scotss
>>> surnames are the results of Norman knights invited to Scotland by
>>> the
>>> king in the
>>> Middle Ages -- though this was BS -- Before Surnames so not too
>>> relevant
>>> <grin>).
>>>
>>> If you check IGI you'll see right away where it probably came from.
>>> The
>>> pattern is rather distinctively that of an English family. You'll see
>>> it
>>> in
>>> counties in Northern Ireland planted by the English. Not surprisingly,
>>> they still
>>> got a lot of English surnames there. You also see it in coastal
>>> locations.
>>> This suggests to me that either they were a merchant family that set
>>> down
>>> branches in coastal towns, and/or there was a couple sets of English
>>> families.
>>> These could have come with the Normans or any time later on.
>>> Elizabethan
>>> times
>>> (several plantations of English), Cromwell settled his whole army in
>>> Ireland.
>>> Anyway lots of English surnames in Ireland, some were translated into
>>> Irish
>>> as people assimilated into the Irish nation. The place names are not
>>> too
>>> hard
>>> to spot this way as the Irish didn't use placenames while the English
>>> did.
>>>
>>> As you say you have never found the surname in Ireland -- I wonder
>>> why
>>> not?
>>> It's in IGI. The good news is this probably means if you studied
>>> Irish
>>> genealogy a little, you could make lots of progress because not much
>>> has
>>> been done.
>>> You could still have spent 70 years banging your head against the
>>> wall,
>>> but
>>> until very recently it was almost impossible to get your hands on the
>>> materials needed to do Irish research in the 1700s, even in Ireland.
>>> Now,
>>> its best
>>> to go to Salt Lake. The material is all in one spot, the hours are
>>> long,
>>> they
>>> are friendly towards family historians. If you go to Ireland, you'll
>> have
>>> to
>>> visit multiple repositories in England, Scotland, Ireland, etc, and
>>> most
>>> will
>>> have poor hours. There are good researchers in Salt Lake who can
>>> assist.
>>> It
>>> took several years of seminars at the British Isles Family History
>>> Society
>>> before I could do anything at all.
>>>
>>> It's very good that you have a rare surname to trace. That means
>>> almost
>>> anything you find you'd better pay close attention to. Alas, my
>>> surnames
>>> are very
>>> common. You also need to work up a profile of the family -- were they
>>> merchants? Did they make hats (like Dan'l Boone)? Etc. This will
>>> suggest
>>> sources to
>>> check in Ireland.
>>>
>>> Anyway, there's also the chance that an Irish family anglicized the
>>> surname
>>> to this English name. Generally you can discover that quite easily.
> Get
>>> a
>>> DNA
>>> test, and flush out some people that you think y ou should be related
>>> to.
>>> Test them. That's the problem with Ireland: ANY surname could have
>>> been
>>> adopted
>>> by an Irishman, so if you rely on surnames to do your family history
>>> you
>>> might be wrong. Today these kind of surname adoptions can be
>>> detected.
>>>
>>> Linda Merle
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Don" <>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 12:51:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>>> Eastern
>>> Subject: Re: [S-I] Scots in Ulster
>>>
>>> Sara - Would you be willing to look for the name "Trindle or
>>> variation
>>> of
>>> the name" in your new book? My ggg+grandfather left N Ireland
>>> sometime
>>> around 1720, arrived Philadelphia as indentured person. Eventually
>>> married
>>> and removed abt 1740 to what is now Mechanicsburg PA. About all I
>>> know
>>> of
>>> his origin is that he claimed to be a "Scotchman from Ireland". Have
>>> never
>>> found the Trindle name either in Scotland or Ireland, but most likely
>>> the
>>> spelling wouldn't have been the same.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Don Woodley
>>>
>>> RAOGK for Bremer, Butler, Floyd and Franklin Counties in Iowa.
>>> Researching Woodley, Butler, Ayers, Trindle, Cornford, Relf,
>>> Lingenfelter
>>> and others as time permits.
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>>> the
>>> quotes in the subject and
>>> the body of the message
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>> the
>>> quotes in the subject and
>>> the body of the message
>>>
>>>
>>> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is
>>> making
>>> headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
>>>
>>> -------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>>> the
>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>> the
>> quotes in the subject and
>> the body of the message
>>
>>
>> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
>> headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
>>
>> -------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without
>> the
>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and
> the body of the message
>
>
> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
> headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message


-------------------------------
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and
the body of the message


**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026)


This thread: