Scotch-Irish-L Archives
Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-11 > 1226345426
From:
Subject: Re: [S-I] Origin of the Irvines
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:30:26 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <B266A458502845C4B1E5D8B0FC0B414D@DF57ZS51>
Hi Karen, surnames follow males, so if you want to trace a surname, of course you must find a male with the surname to give a sample of his DNA. This is his Y Chromosome that is tested. Remember high school biology (I had to relearn....)? Guys are XY and females XX?? Mitochondrial DNA everyone has. It is inherited on the famale lines. Males inherit their mother's but their children's comes from THEIR mother. It's too confusing....forget it <grin>.
I usually recommend the Ulster Heritage DNA Project. You go to www.familytreedna.com and find a surname project and this one. Order kit. Seriously, Irish DNA is being seriously studied right now. A lot is known. You can get a lot of assistence free at these projects, though it does help to have interesting DNA. Once the sample is in the lab, even if the person dies, you can still order more tests.
Don't know a relative with the surname? Do genealogy. Seriously, I was able to locate the descendents of a late 18th century Tyrone family in Australia over the Internet and prove with DNA that they are related to a colonial American family. The Australian records in the later 1800s have the place of origin of the birth -- so we knew these folk were from this village where we did have birth records.
If you don't know where in Ireland they are from, join the Irish DNA Heritage project. When the results come in, the admins will send you off to the right green field. We're at a point where the experts can 'eyeball' the DNA and tell what part of Ireland it came from. Not 12 markers. Get 37 or no one wants to hear from you. Not enough data to tell much.....
Or, if broke (and who isn't these days), you can order a few hundred kits free at Sorenson's for your next genealogy society meeting. http://www.smgf.org/ That's how I got my mitochondrial results. They take a long time and don't send you the results, you have to search for them in their database. But....it's free! And you got plenty of time to bone up on DNA and how to use their database. We sent off my dad's mito too....grandma was a Dalrymple/Mennoch/Ure ....etc.....To determine if her Dalrymple father (a Scots coalminer with a drinking problem) was related to THE Dalrymple tribe, we'd need to chase down the descendents of her brothers or cousins (two brothers came over in 1893). I may do this when I win the lottery.
Happy hunting....
Iinda Merle
----- Original Message -----
From: Karen
To:
Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:12:47 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: [S-I] Origin of the Irvines
So Linda, what is your suggestion for a DNA test for the rest of us. I need
specifics, especially who to contact, including a web address. And, do I
need a male willing to do it? Are there any such tests for a female? My
ancestors are from "Ulster" - probably Co. Armagh, if that makes a
difference.
Karen
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Origin of the Irvines
> Hi Richard, locate a male descendent and join the dNA project:
> http://www.clanirwin.org/dnastudy.php
>
> Their results show:
> "
> Our test results indicate:
>
> 63% of our
> participants share a paternal ancestor who came from the Scottish
> Borders, probably Dumfriesshire in the 13th or 14th century. This
> branch of the name now includes an Urwin from Northumberland.
> 12%
> of our participants form five small branches who share, respectively,
> ancestors from Orkney (Scotland), Munster (Ireland), Germany and S.E.
> Ohio, but who are unrelated to the Borders ancestor, plus a branch who
> bear our surname but share a paternal ancestor with the Borders family
> of Bell.
> 9% of our participants appear to be unrelated to any of the above six
> branches, or to others within this final branch.
> 16% of our participants cannot yet be categorised, some because more than
> 12-markers need analysis."
>
> Which group are yours in ? You will not find family history in the 1500s
> that is reliable. This is. Somewhere on their webpages they identify an
> Irish clan that anglicized to one of the many variants of the surname.
> Unrelated to the Scots family. Again, which group is yours? Your only
> hope really is DNA studies. There are very very few records in Scotland
> inthe 1500s in this area and ditto for Ireland.
>
> Linda Merle
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard J. Saunders
> To:
> Sent: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:27:56 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: [S-I] Origin of the Irvines
>
> Hello
>
> these are my Irwins. Can anyone correct or add to it??
>
> Descendants of Robert Irwin
>
>
>
>
> Generation No. 1
>
>
> 1. ROBERT1 IRWIN was born Abt. 1562 in Ballybride, Roscommon, Ireland, and
> died in Ardkeelmore, Ballybride, Roscommon, Ireland.
>
>
> Child of ROBERT IRWIN is:
>
> 2. i. JOHN2 IRWIN, b. Abt. 1590, Ireland; d. Abt. 1656, Ireland.
>
>
>
> Generation No. 2
>
>
> 2. JOHN2 IRWIN (ROBERT1) was born Abt. 1590 in Ireland, and died Abt. 1656
> in Ireland. He married ELIZABETH CLIFFORD in Ireland. She was born Abt.
> 1594
> in Carrowmonyn, Roscommon, Ireland.
>
> More About JOHN IRWIN and ELIZABETH CLIFFORD:
>
> Marriage: Ireland
>
>
> Child of JOHN IRWIN and ELIZABETH CLIFFORD is:
>
> 3. i. JOHN3 IRWIN, b. Abt. 1618, Ballymurry, Roscommon, Ireland; d. 20 Jun
> 1720, Ireland.
>
>
>
> Generation No. 3
>
>
> 3. JOHN3 IRWIN (JOHN2, ROBERT1) was born Abt. 1618 in Ballymurry,
> Roscommon,
> Ireland, and died 20 Jun 1720 in Ireland.
>
>
> Children of JOHN IRWIN are:
>
> i. JAMES4 IRWIN, b. Abt. 1650, Ballinderry, Roscommon, Ireland; d. Abt.
> 1700.
>
> ii. CHRISTOPHER IRWIN, b. Abt. 1655, Ballinderry, Roscommon, Ireland; d.
> Abt. 1714, Ireland; m. SARA ORMSBY; b. Abt. 1656, Leabeg, Oran, Roscommon,
> Ireland.
>
> Notes for CHRISTOPHER IRWIN:
>
> IRWIN
>
> Origins in Ulster : Scottish Plantaion
>
> Irwin in Ulster is very often confused with Irvine especially in
> Fermanagh.
>
> This may be due to the fact that both the Irwins and the Irvines arrived
> in
> Ulster about the same time (1630) from the same part of Dumfriesshire with
> both settling in Fermanagh, South Tyrone
>
> The name can sometimes be found as Erwin but this is mainly in Antrim.
>
> ------------------
>
> Richard Saunders
>
> Woburn, MA
>
>
>
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