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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-10 > 1224781483


From: Marlene Creech <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] Fw: Irish Protestants
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 13:04:43 -0400
References: <FA51FE6549BE4B368051A461CD8DD5EE@customer>
In-Reply-To: <FA51FE6549BE4B368051A461CD8DD5EE@customer>


John:
I just sent an answer to The S-I site, I wish I had more info right now.
However, Ann Garretson is my ancestor.
Marlene
On Oct 22, 2008, at 8:28 AM, John Erwin wrote:

>
>
>
>
>> I have Garretsons from New Castle, Delaware who came from the
>> Netherlands
>> who changed their name to Garrison. I always thought they were Dutch--
>> could you elaborate on the nationality? I thought it might have been a
>> possibility that Garret was a first name and they became Garret--son.
>>
>> John Erwin
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Marlene Creech" <>
>> To: "Ken Poole" <>;
>> <>
>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [S-I] Irish Protestants
>>
>>
>>> Aaaaa, New Castle, Delaware, some of my ancestors lived there. The
>>> Garretsons' whose name was not Dutch but they came from The
>>> Netherlands
>>> and their
>>> name wound up being Garretson.
>>> Marlene
>>> On Oct 20, 2008, at 9:34 AM, Ken Poole wrote:
>>>
>>>> New Castle Delaware was the major off loading spot on the east
>>>> coast,
>>>> even
>>>> William Penn came to
>>>> this land through that port, if you go there today it is a charming
>>>> village
>>>> and has a wonderful historical
>>>> feel.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: <>
>>>> To: <>
>>>> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:02 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [S-I] Irish Protestants
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it possible that anyone on this list has passenger lists of the
>>>>> ships
>>>>> from Derry to Philadelphia? My ancestor took that route (I
>>>>> believe)
>>>>> but
>>>>> off
>>>>> loaded in New Castle, DE in 1768.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In a message dated 10/20/2008 7:34:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>>> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Linda (and Listers),
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really sure what you mean by your comment that "apparently it
>>>>> was
>>>>> possible to be both Protestant and Irish in the days of the United
>>>>> Irishmen". Of course it was possible to be Protestant and Irish
>>>>> in
>>>>> the
>>>>> 18th
>>>>> century. The United Irishmen rebellion in 1798 was largely a
>>>>> Protestant
>>>>> rebellion. Both leaders, Wolfe Tone and Henry Joy McCracken were
>>>>> Protestants. The majority of the local leaders in Ulster were
>>>>> Protestant
>>>>> and many were Presbyterian ministers. The Reverend James Porter,
>>>>> from
>>>>> Ballindrait, about 2 miles from where I am writing this, was
>>>>> executed
>>>>> within
>>>>> sight of his wife in the manse at Greyabbey for his role in the
>>>>> rebellion.
>>>>> I know that this concept of Presbyterian Irishmen is anathema to
>>>>> many
>>>>> modern
>>>>> Unionists (Ulster Protestants for those who don't understand
>>>>> modern
>>>>> Irish
>>>>> terminology) who have never read any history but it is a fact and
>>>>> there
>>>>> are
>>>>> very good reasons for it. Reasons which if they bothered to read
>>>>> would
>>>>> actually cheer today's Unionists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Money. As always money was at the root of it. By the mid 18th
>>>>> century
>>>>> the
>>>>> nascent Irish testile industry, much of it centred in the linen
>>>>> mills of
>>>>> Belfast rather than Dublin, was unable to compete within the rules
>>>>> devised
>>>>> by the Parliament at Westminster which favoured the more advanced
>>>>> English
>>>>> textile mills. They needed protectionism to survive. They needed
>>>>> their
>>>>> own
>>>>> parliament in Ireland to change the laws to enable them to
>>>>> survive or
>>>>> they
>>>>> would go bust. Hence the rebellion. And who were these mill
>>>>> owners
>>>>> and
>>>>> businessmen in Belfast? They certainly weren't catholics who
>>>>> weren't
>>>>> even
>>>>> allowed to own businesses. They were 90% Presbyterian. They
>>>>> made up
>>>>> the
>>>>> vast bulk of the driving force behind the United Irishmen in Ulster
>>>>> though
>>>>> many of the footsoldiers would have been catholic. As always, the
>>>>> middle
>>>>> classses, in this case Presbyterian, made the bullets and the poor
>>>>> old
>>>>> working class fired them!
>>>>>
>>>>> And remember, it was the same Prebyterians who had been
>>>>> persecuted so
>>>>> much
>>>>> in the previous two centuries by Anglican regimes in London that
>>>>> they
>>>>> emigrated in their thousands starting in 1718 with those famous
>>>>> Five
>>>>> Ships
>>>>> from Derry to Philly. And who organised that first expedition?
>>>>> Yayyyyyhooooo - my putative ancestor, the Reverend William Boyd of
>>>>> Macvosquin. Sorry, Linda, I always have to get that one in!!!
>>>>> So,
>>>>> there
>>>>> was a long history of Irish Protestant resistance to the
>>>>> establishment
>>>>> in
>>>>> England. Quite whether they ever called themselves Irish is of
>>>>> course a
>>>>> moot point long pored over by many academics in America. BUT the
>>>>> Presbyterians of the United IRISHMEN, to whom you refer, certainly
>>>>> called
>>>>> themselves Irish and were leg by Presbyterian Protestants, a fact
>>>>> often
>>>>> forgotten, dare I say deliberately, by BOTH traditions in Ireland
>>>>> because
>>>>> it
>>>>> does not suit their prejudices. Or they would do if people like
>>>>> me
>>>>> did
>>>>> not
>>>>> keep reminding them of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it is all in Kerby Miller's great book yet again. Read those
>>>>> letters,
>>>>> many of them written by my fellow Donegal men, Presbyterians of
>>>>> the
>>>>> Laggan
>>>>> Valley, who were fleeing persecution post 1798.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boyd (an Irish Protestant and proud of it, but with a Scotch-Irish
>>>>> name
>>>>> and
>>>>> writing very tongue in cheek)
>>>>>
>>>>> SNIP
>>>>> Apparently in the days of the United Irish, it was possible to be
>>>>> Protestant
>>>>> and Irish in Northern Ireland. I have met people there who still
>>>>> are.
>>>>> Most
>>>>> are branded with Irish surnames, like Kelly. They can't 'escape'
>>>>> any
>>>>> more
>>>>> than my Kelly ancestors could, from being Irish. However they get
>>>>> called
>>>>> 'soupers' a lot, they told me. But there were many more 200 years
>>>>> ago, I
>>>>> suspect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda Merle
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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