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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-10 > 1224517335


From: "Karen" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] Irish Protestants
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:42:15 -0400
References: <d1f.371b4d36.362ddb63@aol.com>


My Hart ancestors lived in Co. Armagh, and -- somehow -- got from there to
Ontario, Canada. Does anyone have any hints about how I might find where
they left northern Ireland, what ship they might have come on, and where
they might have landed? One person thought they might have landed in
Philadelphia or New York, in the US, then traveled north to Canada. Any
thoughts on that one?
Thanks for all your wisdom,
Karen
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Irish Protestants


>
>
> Is it possible that anyone on this list has passenger lists of the ships
> from Derry to Philadelphia? My ancestor took that route (I believe) but
> off
> loaded in New Castle, DE in 1768.
>
>
> In a message dated 10/20/2008 7:34:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> writes:
>
> Hi Linda (and Listers),
>
> Not really sure what you mean by your comment that "apparently it was
> possible to be both Protestant and Irish in the days of the United
> Irishmen". Of course it was possible to be Protestant and Irish in the
> 18th
> century. The United Irishmen rebellion in 1798 was largely a Protestant
> rebellion. Both leaders, Wolfe Tone and Henry Joy McCracken were
> Protestants. The majority of the local leaders in Ulster were Protestant
> and many were Presbyterian ministers. The Reverend James Porter, from
> Ballindrait, about 2 miles from where I am writing this, was executed
> within
> sight of his wife in the manse at Greyabbey for his role in the
> rebellion.
> I know that this concept of Presbyterian Irishmen is anathema to many
> modern
> Unionists (Ulster Protestants for those who don't understand modern Irish
> terminology) who have never read any history but it is a fact and there
> are
> very good reasons for it. Reasons which if they bothered to read would
> actually cheer today's Unionists.
>
> Money. As always money was at the root of it. By the mid 18th century
> the
> nascent Irish testile industry, much of it centred in the linen mills of
> Belfast rather than Dublin, was unable to compete within the rules
> devised
> by the Parliament at Westminster which favoured the more advanced English
> textile mills. They needed protectionism to survive. They needed their
> own
> parliament in Ireland to change the laws to enable them to survive or
> they
> would go bust. Hence the rebellion. And who were these mill owners and
> businessmen in Belfast? They certainly weren't catholics who weren't
> even
> allowed to own businesses. They were 90% Presbyterian. They made up
> the
> vast bulk of the driving force behind the United Irishmen in Ulster
> though
> many of the footsoldiers would have been catholic. As always, the middle
> classses, in this case Presbyterian, made the bullets and the poor old
> working class fired them!
>
> And remember, it was the same Prebyterians who had been persecuted so
> much
> in the previous two centuries by Anglican regimes in London that they
> emigrated in their thousands starting in 1718 with those famous Five
> Ships
> from Derry to Philly. And who organised that first expedition?
> Yayyyyyhooooo - my putative ancestor, the Reverend William Boyd of
> Macvosquin. Sorry, Linda, I always have to get that one in!!! So, there
> was a long history of Irish Protestant resistance to the establishment
> in
> England. Quite whether they ever called themselves Irish is of course a
> moot point long pored over by many academics in America. BUT the
> Presbyterians of the United IRISHMEN, to whom you refer, certainly called
> themselves Irish and were leg by Presbyterian Protestants, a fact often
> forgotten, dare I say deliberately, by BOTH traditions in Ireland because
> it
> does not suit their prejudices. Or they would do if people like me did
> not
> keep reminding them of it.
>
> And it is all in Kerby Miller's great book yet again. Read those
> letters,
> many of them written by my fellow Donegal men, Presbyterians of the
> Laggan
> Valley, who were fleeing persecution post 1798.
>
> Boyd (an Irish Protestant and proud of it, but with a Scotch-Irish name
> and
> writing very tongue in cheek)
>
> SNIP
> Apparently in the days of the United Irish, it was possible to be
> Protestant
> and Irish in Northern Ireland. I have met people there who still are.
> Most
> are branded with Irish surnames, like Kelly. They can't 'escape' any more
> than my Kelly ancestors could, from being Irish. However they get called
> 'soupers' a lot, they told me. But there were many more 200 years ago, I
> suspect.
>
> Linda Merle
>
>
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