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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-10 > 1224312052

From: "Carolyn Hughes" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] Whiskey galore
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 23:40:52 -0700

What about Old Overholt?
Carolyn Mills Hughes

> [Original Message]
> From: <>
> To: W.F. Stephens <>; <>
> Date: 10/17/2008 7:28:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] Whiskey galore
> Hey Woody - that's the info I was looking for - Sam Thompson. Now how
> more Scotch-Irish can you get than that? Just proves my point - that no
> matter what grain they used, and thank you everyone for clarifying the
> rye/barley issue, you can bank on it being a Scotch-Irishman who brought
> distilling tradition across the pond!
> Now, in a similar vein, who can answer this question, which has puzzled me
> for years. I am a big fan of the Bluegrass Weekend at the Ulster American
> Folk Park near Omagh in the first week of every September. Why is it that
> while this music is based in the Appalachian Mountains, where all our
> Scotch-Irish ancestors migrated, it is clearly derived from Irish
> traditional music and not the music we normally associate with the
> Scotch-Irish here in Ulster. I am hoping the answer lies in the fact
> when our ancestors left Ulster, way back in the 18th and 19th centuries,
> there WAS no difference between the music of the two communities here - a
> wake held in either a Catholic or a Presbyterian home would have been very
> similar as regards the music played and danced to - what do others think?
> In these days of peace and reconciliation, it would be nice to think we
> shared a common musical tradition.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W.F. Stephens [mailto:]
> Sent: 17 October 2008 21:06
> To:
> Subject: Re: [S-I] Whiskey galore
> Rye is a grain used primarily for bread these days. True rye whiskey is
> distilled from malted rye grains just as Scotch and Irish whisky is made
> from malted barley. It's difficult to find real rye any more. Its last
> bastion is/was the Pennsylvania/Maryland border area. I have not seen nor
> heard of the two most popular brands, Old Overholt and Sam Thompson for 40
> years. Some people mistakenly refer to such blended whiskeys as Seagrams
> Schenleys, etc as ryes but I think they are distilled from wheat or corn,
> but not rye so as one could distinguish the distinctive taste. A still
> been reconstructed at Mount Vernon, George Washington's home, on the
> foundations of one he operated with the help of Scottish distillery
> I understand it originally produced rye whiskey. It is now up and
> operating, and expects to sell to the public in two years.
> Jack Daniels is a bourbon type whiskey, distilled from corn (maize), but
> referred to as a Tennessee whiskey. I don't know if that is an
> restriction as it is not distilled in Kentucky, or a sales gimmick. All
> Jack Daniels whiskeys are charcoal filtered.
> Bourbon takes its name from Bourbon County, Kentucky where it was first
> distilled by a Baptist minister, whose name escapes me (it was an Irish
> name, of course) in the late 1700's. At that time it was difficult for
> farmers to ship their corn crops to markets east of the Appalachian
> Mountains. But, if the corn was turned into whiskey and put into crockery
> jugs, it could be more easily transported over the mountains and sold for
> more than the grain itself.
> Woody Stephens
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 1:21 PM
> Subject: [S-I] Whiskey galore
> > Hey Linda, I'll do my best not to flee in horror no matter how gross the
> > cuisine your Listers come up with! At the Gray family home we are very
> > trad
> > I'm afraid - turkey, roasties, boiled spuds, brussel sprouts, carrots,
> > parsnips, stuffing and gravy. We do sneak a clove or two of garlic
> > the
> > stuffing, which I am sure my mother would never have dreamed of doing,
> > I
> > guess that doesn't qualify as gross.
> >
> > What interests me more re Ulster and America in terms of what might be
> > loosely described as cuisine, is how our Irish whiskey became American
> > rye.
> > We at the East Donegal Ulster Scots are running another Francis Makemie
> > style Summer School in May 2009 along the lines of the one in 2007,
> > concentrating on migration between Ulster and America. 2010 will be the
> > 400th anniversary of the Ulster Plantation so the theme will definitely
> > links with Scotland in two years time. As part of the weekend, I would
> > like
> > to explore the possible links in distilling. After all, the Beverley
> > Hillbillies (I cannot be the only person old enough to remember them?)
> > showed us all about the illicit stills that existed in the Appalachian
> > Mountains and I personally am very aware of the never ending battles
> > the churchwardens and vestrymen of Taughboyne Parish Church here in East
> > Donegal fought against the iillegal distillers in the hills of east
> > Donegal.
> > I digipiced the Vestry Minutes from 1794 up to 1858 and you can read
> > which have been so far transcribed on Lindel Buckley's website -
> > So, how
> > Tir
> > Connail whiskey, as distilled by A A Watt from Ramelton, become Jack
> > Daniels? Or Bushmills, from my own part of the world? Maybe some of
> > Listers can inform me. The very first thing I need to know is this;
> > IS
> > rye? Is it just an Americanism for barley, which we use to make whiskey
> > here, or is it an entirely different grain. Who were the first legal
> > distillers in the States? Were they Scotch Irishmen and if so, from
> > where?
> > How did the product develop? How is it similar and how is it different?
> >
> > Getting back to the Summer School next year, as you will be aware, I am
> > fascinated by the reasons why people left Ulster to go to America. I
> > the general history - the waves of emigration in the 18th century. I
> > researched my putative ancestor, the Reverend William Boyd from
> > and his role in all of this, and you and many others have written
> > extensively about the 1718 5 Ships Expedition in the past. For those
> > in
> > the know - check the archives. Or go to the
> > website and read the contributions from
> > James McConnell, William Roulston, Linde Lunney and Colin Brooks, our
> > keynote speaker in 2007. But what really interests me now is the
> > force behind ordinary people - the push and pull factors. This subject
> > was
> > well covered by Kerby Miller et al in "Irish Immigrants in the Land of
> > Canaan" a couple of years ago. His research was based on and includes
> > several dozen letter writers and the epistles they sent back and forth
> > across the Atlantic. Now there is a new addition to the oeuvre. Gary T
> > Hawbaker has written a fascinating book based on the letters written to
> > and
> > by just one man, William McKnight of Burt and Ramelton, wo immigrated to
> > Lancaster County, Pennsylvania between 1796 and 1826.
> >
> > I must have dozens if not hundreds of "cousins" in the States because,
> > my
> > tree grows and grows, I keep finding more and yet more of my ancestors
> > turning up in Ellis Island Records, or the immigrations records on
> > and then in the censuses from 1870 through to 1930.
> > knows how many went before the mid 19th century. I have only recently
> > found
> > a third cousin, descended from one of two brothers of my great
> > who married sisters from the same parish in County Derry and who lived
> > died in New York. My maternal grandparents emigrated and my mother was
> > born
> > in Manhattan. Why did they all go there?! I have read the books, I
> > the theories but I would really love to know what was uppermost in their
> > minds. Unlike the famine emigrants, the Scotch Irish seem to have been
> > more
> > motivated by the pull of America, rather than the push of hardship in
> > Ireland. But did my grandparents really think the streets were paved
> > gold?
> >
> > Hey, maybe it was the rye? Was Jack Damiels really that much better
> > Bushmills? Or had they heard about the delights of possum on
> > Day? Tee hee.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Boyd
> >
> >
> > Hi folks, many years ago on this list, a member posted a query regarding
> > what our ancestors (living in the Appalachian mountains) ate.
> > Unfortunately, they were not here on the purported first occasion
> > to have been in Massachusetts about 1621). The holiday apparently
> > become one till Lincoln's day (post 1850), when they were here, all
> > right.
> > But no one seemed to have a guess. It's not as if this is an ethnic
> > widely known for its culinary delicacies!
> >
> > Then not too long ago, quite spontaneously, my 80 year old mother told
> > about her childhood Thanksgivings in the northern end of the Appalachian
> > foothills, rural western Pennsylvania, where her ancestors got lost 200
> > years ago and so remained.
> > SNIP
> >
> >
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