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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-06 > 1213494466

From: "Cliff. Johnston" <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] FREE BEER ? & IRISH
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:47:46 -0500
References: <>


Thanks for the overview. Very interesting. If you ever get down to the
Houston area I'll buy you that beer!

Cliff. Johnston
"May the best you've ever seen,
Be the worst you'll ever see;"
from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] FREE BEER ? & IRISH

> Hi John, I donno, I'm getting pretty OLD here, myself! I might be older
> than you!
> The definitive work (meaning the book by the expert) on Irish emigration
> is a book by Kerby Miller.
> He agrees with you that many colonial-era emigrants were native Irish. The
> reason is that Donegal
> had very poor soil. He says it lost most of its population long before the
> Famine. This explains
> why if you look at DNA projects like the Cumberland Gap one or DNA
> projects related to
> upland Virginia -- the amount of R1b1c7 is astonishing. LOTS of native
> Irish. In I think it is
> Hanna "The Scotch Irish", the story is recounted of an Irish priest who
> toured the Applachians
> in the early 1800s where he encountered many Irish surnames and many
> people who said they
> were Irish -- but they were all Protestants. It was impossible to be
> Catholic in the area. There
> was no church, no priest, no mass, no your children and
> grandchildren could not
> be Catholic, assuming you were! If you were you kept your mouth shut,
> having lived in Ulster
> and knowing that you were surrounded by 99% Protestants.
> Where things started to change in both attitude and sociologically was
> after the American Revolution
> and the failed United Irish Rebellion in Ireland. It had profound affects
> on American politics and
> sociology. The lucky ones escaped to America where they pursued their
> agenda -- the rights of man --
> and won their battle by assisting in defeating forever the Federalists.
> Before the Revolution Americans
> tended to live in ethnic enclaves, but afterwards we began to mix. One
> reason was United Irish values.
> About 1800 the Rev. John Black, a young minister from Ahoghill, Antrim,
> was a nationally known figure.
> I descend from his brother. He and others carried on a national debate on
> various issues including
> slavery. I read a book on the subject. "United Irishmen, United States:
> Immigrant Radicals in the Early
> Republic" by David A. Wilson.
> In I think 1795 a group of Irish of mixed religions from the Fermanagh
> area settled in
> what is now Butler Co, PA. They left Ireland after making political
> speeches about what they thought
> of oppressing people due to their religion (not much at all). When the
> Catholics were organizing to
> form the first diocese west of the Alleghenies, their Protestant neighbors
> signed the petition. They
> founded the Pittsburgh diocese. The most radical ideas of the time came
> from Ulster and were
> brought to the national attention by Presbyterian ministers born and bred
> in County Antrim.
> The point is that it is not a new idea that "Irish" is geographical, like
> "US Citizen". It doesn't say a
> lot about your religion or political position or even where your ancestors
> lived.
> Unfortunately the poor in Ireland were invisible because their names do
> not appear in the types
> of records that were created. Most of them were Catholics. However if your
> ancestors were Protestant
> they were more likely to appear on a muster list (in a time when Catholics
> were not allowed to
> have guns), for example. So it is much easier to research Protestants
> whether they are Scots or
> not.
> However 100% of them, if in Ireland, were Irish. If you choose to let
> some ethnic group hijack the
> name Irish for themselves, that's not so smart. That's like claiming
> "American" only means Indians,
> or Anglo Saxons, or US Citizens instead of Canadians, Mexicans, etc, etc
> etc. Our ancestors
> were a type of Irish called Ulster Scots (or various other names I will
> not repeat <grin>).
> If anyone wants to buy me a beer.....I'm available.
> Linda Merle
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