Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-06 > 1213467404
Subject: Re: [S-I] FREE BEER ? AND 1718 PROJECT
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:16:44 +0000
Hi Joseph, "Scotch-Irish" is an ethnic group, an American ethnic group, actually. It is comprised of people of various origins. Most have roots in Ulster, but some do not. Some were English, German,
French, etc. Unfortunately -- the same people who mixed in with them in Ireland.
Some are not Scots in origin -- they are Irish. It's possible that some of their ancestors went to Scotland then returned, in which case you'd probably find DNA traces in Scotland. There is definitely Irish DNA in Scotland. However we also know that in some cases all the Irish in parishes in Ireland converted to Protestantism in the early 1600s -- by default. They had no priests. They had no churches, no education, no houses. Everything was wrecked by 50 years of war. So when a man of the cloth showed up to marry or baptize children -- he did so. So there wasn't necessarily a conscious
choice. A little later on, there were Presbyterian ministers preaching in Irish to the Irish. Some
were Irish and others were Scots. Scots Gaelic and Irish were very much alike.
There were a number of unfortunate and stupid acts that led to the ethnic divisions in Ulster.
One was the crackdown in the 1630s on Presbyterian ministers. Many spoke Gaelic and
were preaching to the Irish. However they lost their parishes and had to flee to Scotland
because they didn't accept bishops. Had the Scots been able to continue to preach and
educate in Gaelic, most likely the Irish would not have been left so isolated and so volunerable
to a number of forces, like the Counter Reformation. Then the English outlawed Irish, which
further produced an unbridgable gulf as there were no schools.
With DNA testing you can determine the origin of the family. The DNA profile of the Irish clans
who conquered and ruled Ulster for a thousand years is now well known. That's the one that 'll
get you a free beer.
One of the McKane families who came in 1718 are descendents of the Ui
Neills. I have a client whose roots in Ulster were unknown. Three brothers were dropped off by the pesky UFO about 1770 into Virginia.... Not only were the descendents of the Ui Neills but blue bloods -- descended from the main line of the O'Cain chiefs. Or so says our DNA expert.
The 1718 project perhaps Colin can explain on the list as perhaps many haven't heard of it.
The fabulous thing about the Irish is that they have the oldest genealogies in Europe. They began adopting sept names in the 900s unless I am recalling wrong. So a few years ago people
wondered if there was any truth to these genealogies. Are fellows with asurname known to be
that of Ui Neill clans related? The initial study in Feb 0f 2006 showed that they were indeed.
While most men in Ireland have "Celtic" DNA, in the north, 20% descend from the Ui Neill
clans. In some western parishes the percentage is much much higher. Because we have the
genealogies, we can make much more sense of the DNA evidence.
When my client's first results came in, the administrator of the Irish Heritage DNA project took one look at it and sent us off to the Ulster end of the project. He could EYEBALL the DNA. For
those of us who are unable to find a paper trail to Ireland, this is a godsend. You and then
search for DNA matches in that area in Ireland and maybe find a paper trail or at least another
We found or rather I found two pools of my client's surname in Ireland, both in Ulster. One in
Down and one in Tyrone. The Down group was larger so I located a man in Belfast who descended
from these people and we tested him. He is also a descendent of Niall (Ui Neill), though
Protestant, but not close enough to share an ancestor in 7 generations. Actually that group in
Down are both Catholic and Protestant, but you tend to know only your own family.
It was hard finding descendents of the much smaller group around Dungannon. Finally I found
a lady in Australia who descended from a daughter of a man who lived in that area in the early
1800s. The family had migrated to Scotland and then Australia. With her help we found a
man in Australia descended from a son and we tested him. He was a complete and total match!
He has a perfect paper trail back to a parish in Tyrone.
So we're fairly certain we know where these three brothers came from - Tyrone. DNA evidence also
supported my conclusions that they were not related to several other potential families in
America. So far no matches in Scotland or anywhere else. The closest matches are the
main line of the O'Cathain clan who ruled Tyrone for a thousand years. Now we're trying
to flesh out the paper trail. However though Protestant at least from the early 1700s in part
(the Catholics are invisible), they tended to live on townlands that were part of Church of
Ireland estates, esp. the huge Archdiocese of Armagh estate. The church was not required to
only rent to Protestants in the 1600s, unlike Planters (who largely ignored this rule anyway).
the church estates were full of Irish people. So their presence there goes hand in hand with
their DNA -- I can't say their ethnicity -- because as far back as I can trace them, some are
Protestants who have trades like blacksmiths. Middling Protestants, sometimes Presbyterian
and sometimes not. So they 'fit the pattern' of assimilated Irish -- living on churchlands,
not fanatically Presbyterian.
Many of their descendents live in eastern Tennesssee....so when passing through, duff your
hat. The hillsss are allivvveee with Irish princes......
In the early 1600s there were laws against Scots intermarrying with Irish in Ireland. The
history books tell us that when they were repealed, there was great rejoicing. Why? because
everyone was already intermarrying. We can prove that via DNA evidence.
In any case if you are ethnically Scotch Irish, you will not pass up a free beer. You can
get your DNA tested free (without going to a specific pub in New York) at
http://www.smgf.org/ . It will cost you to get results unless you can figure them out once they are in the database. www.genetree.com is the partner to go through. Or it has possibly changed
since I last tried to figure it out.
If you test at www.familytreedna.com, you join the Ulster Heritage DNA Project there (and get a discount). The admins know a lot about Scots and Irish DNA. The Admin there determined the
McLays of Bute descend from the O'Cain clan too. I got two in Scotland on my Scottish side --
so I am also descended from this Irish clan.
A study of surnames can also id the influx of Irish into the settler population. My grandfather's
Covenantor lines from central and northern Antrim, who settled in western Pennsylvania after the War, include many Irish su rnames from the Northern Ulster coast. Many are ambiguous like the Kanes, McKanes, etc. Could be Irish or Scots. In this area, probably Irish, but only a DNA
test can tell. Even of the Irish O'Cains, there's the bluebloods and the rest.
However there is currently intense interest in mapping the DNA of Ireland -- several projects
are underway in Ireland itself. This means you can get your results interepreted free by a knowledgable person. Wait a few years and you 'll pay through the nose for their time. "Irish" meaning it was or is in Ireland.
Another client of mine, descended from Catholic famine emigrants from west Limerick, tested. It doesn;t look like his ancestors came down from Clare at all (as the genealogies claim this surname came from). There was an early settlement in Kerry and that's his matches. His ancestors moved north from Kerry. The surname means "son of the devotee of St. Michael", so they're all not related at all since St. Michael had more than one devotee. If he'd only had one, poor thing, we'd not even
know his name! But he had many, including a sept of them once in Leinster, run out by their
relatives the O'Connors, into Clare, long before the English. I think it was the 1400s. In
any case my client seems to have Scot Gaelic DNA....Hmmm! Galloglass soldiers? Or
just Scotsmen with boats??? Donno but there's a group of Scot DNA in Kerry.......
Sorry for the long post.....it's fascinating.
-------------- Original message --------------
> hello Scotch Irish list ......... why is an Irish event and their
> drinking on this list ???? I thought this was about the Scotch
> Irish ....... I am interested by Colin Brooks ' s message and
> his 1718 project as I am assuming this has to do with the "
> 5 ships to boston in 1718 " . my ancestor was one of the organizers
> , the Worcester group ...his nephew ? the maine group from the ship
> Robert ........... Colin feel free to email me at
> Joseph2852 @ aol.com
> **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
> 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
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