Scotch-Irish-L Archives

Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2008-04 > 1207088681


From: Montgomery Michael <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 3, Issue 36
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 15:24:41 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <001201c89418$f6827590$0200a8c0@Annandale>


Dear Cliff

My friend, the Montgomeries are Scottish, Welsh,
Irish, American, and Norman, but very few are English.
And I'm not one of the latter, either.

No, most folks in Scotland won't come out and declare
they're British. They're too proud, and they should
be. But if you ask a WWII vet from Scotland which
army he fought in, I'll bet that he'll say the British
one, and with great pride too.

Michael


--- "Cliff. Johnston" <>
wrote:

> Michael,
>
> Thanks for the history lesson - most of us are well
> aware of most of those
> facts.
>
> Hmmm, when I visited Scotland 10 years ago I wonder
> where all of those Scots
> were whom you claim should have called themselves
> "British"? I never met
> one. They all called themselves "Scots" and
> "Scottish". M'boy, you sound
> too "English" to me...
>
> Cliff. Johnston
> "May the best you've ever seen,
> Be the worst you'll ever see;"
> from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Montgomery Michael" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 3, Issue
> 36
>
>
> > Dear All
> >
> > Well, put simply, "Britain" includes "Scotland"
> and
> > "Wales" in addition to "England." Some folks in
> > Northern Ireland consider themselve "British" too
> > (I'll not get into that), but everyone in Scotland
> and
> > Wales would call hemselves British. This isn't to
> say
> > that they won't also (or even primarily) consider
> > themselves Scots or Welsh, but at least as a
> secondary
> > identification people in the kingdom of Scotland
> and
> > the Principality of Wales do claim a secondary
> > identity as British. Do NOT call a person from
> Wales
> > or Scotland English, or you are likely to get into
> > immediate trouble or at least to cause pain.
> >
> > Americans like to simplify identifications in the
> > British Isles, but they should know better. A
> typical
> > resident of Pittsburgh would consider him/herself
> an
> > American, a Pennsylvanian, a Pittsburghers, and
> maybe
> > even employ a label for a certain part of town
> that
> > s/he is from. We all inhabit a world of multiple
> > identities. For this reason, reidents of
> Ballymena
> > might consider themselves Irish, Northern Irish,
> > County Antrim, etc. or Northern Irish, British,
> Co.
> > Antrim, etc. But don't call a person from outside
> > England English. England and Wales merged
> > administratively in the 13th century, and with the
> > Union of the Parliaments in 1707 Scotland joined
> them
> > in becoming Great Britain, but the three entities
> > still maintain national identities. With the
> advent
> > of devolution within the past decade (formation of
> the
> > Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament), these
> > have been only enhanced. The latter development
> has
> > led to increasing sentiment within England for its
> own
> > "regional" parliament, as Scottish MPs at
> Westminster
> > can vote on many polities affecting England but
> > English MPs there cannot vote on many policies
> > affecting Scotland. Half the citizens of Scotland
> now
> > want it to become independent. On these issues,
> stay
> > tuned. As the world gets bigger and national
> > boundaries more blurred, it is regional and local
> > identifications that are often filling a gap and
> > strengthen who they consider themselves to be.
> >
> > Hope this isn't confusing, but just don't use
> British
> > and Britain interchangeably with English and
> England.
> > Many of our Scottish, Welsh, and Ulster ancestors
> > would have disowned us! They knew the difference,
> > even if Americans (including many diplomats,
> > newscasters, etc.) do not.
> >
> > A good book to read on the subject is Hugh
> Kearney's
> > _The British Isles: A History of Four Nations_.
> >
> > Good wishes to all
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > From: Add Mobile Alert
> > To: "Montgomery Michael" <>,
> >
> > Subject: Re: [S-I] SCOTCH-IRISH Digest, Vol 3,
> Issue
> > 35
> > Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 14:28:16 +0000
> > Dear Dr. Montgomery,
> >
> >>That said, an astounding number of Americans
> cannot
> >> state the different between "British" and
> "English,"
> > Agreed! Could you lead us in an explanation? Then
> a
> > few of us will be educated on the difference.
> >
> > Or British/English cousins -- feel free to pipe up
> > (politely).......
> > Otherwise if we start to brawl, someone'll call
> the
> > police and we'll all end up in the Clink. (How
> many of
> > you know what the Clink was or why we got this
> phrase
> > in English?).
> >
> > Linda Merle (SI Admin)
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Montgomery Michael <>
> >
> > > Dear All
> > >
> > > While I think that the Library of Congress'
> idea
> > to
> > > subsume "Scottish literature" under "English
> > > literature" was dumb and parcohial, it was
> > rather
> > > strange to see this story simply reprinted in
> > the
> > > March 2008 issue of _The Ulster-Scot_. This
> is
> > > because the LOC bent to the outrage in
> December
> > and
> > > officially withdrew the proposal in January,
> so
> > it
> > > should have been pretty old news by the time
> the
> > paper
> > > went to press in mid-March. Normal
> journalistic
> > > practice would have cited the author or
> source
> > of the
> > > story reprinted in _The Ulster-Scot_; it was
> run
> > on
> > > the internet by the BBC on December 22.
> > >
> > > That said, an astounding number of Americans
> > cannot > state the different between "British" and
> > "English,"
> > > and American journalists very regularly use
> the
> > terms
> > > interchangeably. So it's not surprising that
> the
> > LOC
> > > sleepwalked into their misguided decision.
> > >
> > > Michael Montgomery
> > >
> > > > Message: 2
> > > > Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:33:56 EDT
> > > > From:
> > > > Subject: [S-I] Library of Congress can't
> tell
> > the
> > > > difference between "British" and "English"
> > > > To:
> > > >
> > > > Some of you may be interested in reading
> the
> > article
> > > > at the bottom of this
> > > > page in the recent issue of The
> Ulster-Scot.
> > > >
> > > >
>
=== message truncated ===



____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

This thread: