Scotch-Irish-L Archives

From: <>
Subject: Re: [S-I] Were my ancestors Scotch-Irish?
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:13:55 -0500
References: <100820072302.16381.470AB6FA0005FA1300003FFD22007601800A049D0A0304@comcast.net>

Hi All,

I want to thank you for your assistance with ideas for researching my father's families
origins. I am still pursuing the suggestions.

Barb
TN

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [S-I] Were my ancestors Scotch-Irish?


> Hi Barbara, well sure! Once you hit the mountains in Tennessee, the Carolinas,
> Virginia, most everything on top of them were either Indians or "Scotch-Irish". The
> mountains served as a barrier.
> It was easier to hoof it down from the Middle Atlantic colonies such as New Jersey,
> Pennsylvania, Maryland. Plus more ships went there. It wasn't like you booked a passage
> end to end. You went where the ships went. They were transporting goods. No passenger
> ships till the 1850s. So most
> ships went to the Middle Atlantic colonies. Most Ulster Scots walked or road down the
> wagon roads to their immediate destination. Of course they moved after a generation. Or
> maybe a year or two.
>
> If you google on the Internet you'll find lots of maps that show the migration trails.
> When they arrived, those folk were "Irish" to the people frowning at them (more Irish!
> Just what we NEED!!). We really do not know what they called themselves. Maybe Scotch
> Irish. We know the terms was used by Queen Elizabeth I, but she was cursing Catholic
> Highlanders who were occupying Antrim in the 1500s, not lowland Protestants, occupying
> in the 1600s and later.
>
> However what is clear is before long they were calling themselves Scotch Irish, the name
> of an American ethnic group. So if your ancestors were in the huge area (larger than
> Europe) where the settlers from Ulster predominated and laid down their cultural mark,
> they were Scotch Irish.
> A few English, many Irish, Scots, Germans, French, etc, were also there, but they
> assimilated in "Scotch Irish" since 90% or more of their neighbors were such.
>
> So yes your ancestors were Scotch Irish. Were they from Ulster? I donno. Probably. The
> odds are in your favor.
>
> R1b1c is common in Ireland and common in Scotland. What kinda R1b1c? You gotta star
> afterwards? Have you been tested to determine if its R1b1c7? That makes an Ulster origin
> extremely likely, statistically speaking.
>
> It's impossible to explain how you research these folk in an email....it's a lot of
> work. You can do a preliminary Irish study and determine locations where the Lawsons
> there were. Do the old once over to see if any groups seem to match in terms of first
> name preferences, etc. These days you can practically do one of these on the Internet
> and with CDs.
>
> Then in your case you'd see if the DNA matches closely. If you join the Ulster DNA
> Project at www.familytreedna.com, Barra or Barry McCain can help you identify close
> relations, even if the surname has changed. He may be able to suggest exactly where
> they were in Ulster. If you upload the results to Ysearch.org, you can find close
> matches elsewhere. Or join the Scottish projects if you think that'll help. You can view
> the DNA yourself via the projects.
>
> I can also tell you that there is a lot of info on these early families. I don't know if
> you've explored it all. Might find the homeland is already identified in an old family
> history like "Southern Families". You can prove that it is correct with DNA. But it
> takes more than swabbing a cheek and sending in money and waiting. I've been working on
> one of these for 3 years. We've had to scare up a couple people in Northern Ireland and
> pay to test their DNA. We currently have a kit lost at sea from Australia. Several
> people helped us located Aussie descendents of a late 18th century man in Tyrone. I also
> did research to find a living descendent of another brother (the usual
> brothers....)....took about 4 hours,
> what with on line censuses and message boards. Not hard to do once you learn how. I
> had figured
> out how to do this try ing to process 150 obits we found in the obit index of the
> Chattannooga library. I can't afford to order 150 obits. After about 40 (and several
> very long nights), it got a lot easier.
>
> So don't give up on the DNA. Unfortunately the DNA gurus say (and I do believe they are
> right) that DNA will not sort out the guys on the east bank of the Irish sea from the
> ones on the west. They're...the same! Not surprising. Who wouldn't get in a boat and go
> over? Only someone with seriously impaired curiosity.
>
> We had to get into 67 markers to be able to distinguish the variants among the Irish
> clans. Because....a lot of the Scotch Irish were Irish in origin. So you can sometimes
> really id where the family came from because many Irish are still there in the parish
> with the same DNA as ourselves.
> You can go back and possibly get a free Guinness...as long as you are among the first
> 500 or so to manifest in that pub claiming to be a local <grin>.
>
> However most of the R1b1c7 is in NW Ireland -- some is in Scotland, esp. as some Scots
> clans were founded by Ulstermen. Apparently the distribution in Scotland is fairly
> random, suggesting a very early 'sprinkling', to the DNA lads.
>
> So a closer inspection of the DNA might tell us more, as well as Barra's opinion and
> comparisons with known groupings of Lawsons in Ulster.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> Linda Merle
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: <>
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> After reading about the Scotch-Irish immigrants to the colonies before the
>> Revolutionary War, I have began to wonder if my ancestors were among this group.
>>
>> Isaac Lawson, my gggg grandfather came to Rockbridge Co., VA with his wife and
>> children in 1782, according to the personal property and tax lists of the
>> county. He was married to Agnes [surname unknown]. All of their children were
>> married in Rockbridge, the earliest in 1799 and the last known in 1817.
>>
>> According to the migration of Scotch-Irish from PA ports, Rockbridge Co., VA in
>> the Kerr's Creek area is thought to have been a destination.
>>
>> Isaac Lawson and Robert Lawson are listed among the names of persons taking
>> seats in the of the Old Monmouth Meeting House on 05 Sept 1790, which became the
>> New Monmouth Presbyterian Church.
>>
>> I am seeking information about the parents and siblings of Isaac Lawson and what
>> his relationship, if any, is to Robert Lawson, who came to Rockbridge in 1784.
>>
>> Is my Isaac Lawson a Scotch-Irish immigrant or the descendent of Scotch-Irish
>> immigrants?
>>
>> My cousin has participated in the Lawson DNA Project and has a haplo group of
>> R1b1c. Is this place of origin considered to be among the Scotch-Irish
>> descendents?
>>
>> Thank you for your assistance,
>> Barbara [Lawson] Shackelford
>> TN
>>
>>
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