Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2007-07 > 1185382581
Subject: Re: [S-I] Possible migration of Scots,Scots-Irish in the middle to late 1700s to America
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 16:56:21 +0000
Have you read Hanna "The Scotch-Irish"? It's in a library and also free at ancestry as 'Scots-Irish'. It contains much information on the Ulster Plantation. Most critically it contains the lists of the undertakers and often history of where they were from in Scotland. It contains the 1630-ish report made to King James of who had what. They were supposed to do certain thi ngs like build a bawn and import certain numbers of Protestant settlers. If they didn't do that, they were bad boys. Unfortunately King James died and his father could care less...however we do have the 1630-ish reports that show the change of hands, if one occured.
So....was the undertaker of the estate where your ancestors lived from Perth? If so you have your answer on how he got there. If you have not found them yet in Ulster, then you cannot find them in Scotland. Rule No 2 of genealogy: work from the known to the unknown. Of course we all ignore that rule! (Me too!) However....you might not have enough info yet to do more than fantasize about Scotland.
It's a mistake to believe the past is like the present or recent past where people just move about. They did move about, but they usually, unless someone was on their trail, went somewhere for a reason. Many Ulster settlers in the early 1600s were recruited by their landlord or a neighboring landlord or the landlord of a cousin, etc, etc. After all the undertakers needed reliable men who could bear arms and could farm. Theives, nar do wells, people with brown thumbs -- this they didn't need. Of course they got desperate <grin>! But that is one of the most common patterns of migration.
A book to read is "The Scottish Migration to Ulster in the Reign of James I" by M Perceval Maxwell.
I have no idea why you think your ancestors would need to go to somewhere else in Scotland before leaving from Perth. Maybe you have some evidence of that. Probably not. If not, there's no need to believe there was another hope. Lots of Perth-people went to Ulster.
Unless your ancestor left after the American Revolution he lived somewhere else in America before setting in Washington Co, PA. It was settled, except for a handful of die-hards, after the Revolution. Unfortunately it was settled by both Virginians and Pennsylvanians. You can do studies of other groups of Duff(e)s to see if you can connect yours in -- if you don't know when they came. If you don't, you are not ready to start researching in Ireland. There are no emigration records and most people living there before 1820 or so are not named in ANY record. You can study where Duffs are in Ireland of course. SO you are ready to jump on the main target. You can use associated su rnames to determine which is the target group.
The e is irrelevant, btw. Your ancestors were probably illiterate. If they were not, they were not taught in school standardized spelling. There was no such notion. The first American dictionary was published in the early 1800s. Before that spelling was phonetic.
Unfortunately too Duff or dubh means 'black' in Gaelic. Scots and Irish Gaelic. ANy darkhaired lad could receive it as a by-name, and many did. Some were cuter and were called 'duffie' in English, a diminuative. Mcduff is the son of a dark haired man as is McDuffie. This means your surname and its variants can be found all over Ireland and Scotland. As they were clearly Gaelic, they adopted the very weird and strange English notion of a surname very late. M any of your an cestors are not surnamed "black". Read the front essay in Black's "Surnames of Scotland" if you think I made this up.
I have many ancestors named BLACK. According to family history, they descend from a Lamont who came to Ireland with Monroe's army in 1642. He was dark haired. Case in point! (unproven)
A DNA study might help you id close relatives regardless of their surname. If it turns out to be NW Irish modal, for example, you can suspect your ancestors were Irish and adopted at some point the past of the ethnic group they assimilated into. The DNA studies show many Irish did assimilate into "Ulster Scot", though some of that Irish DNA got to Scotland centuries before and was just returning.
They are also identifying "Leinster Modal" and other kinds of DNA, including various Scots types.
Best of luck!
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "S. McDuffe" <>
> Dear List: For the past 5 years I have been trying to put together clues about
> my father's ancestors. I have found that our surname, McDuffe (silent e), was
> indicative of Perth, Scotland in the 1600s. Our family gedcom states that our
> family was from Ireland (nothing else, naturally) - but probably from Ulster.
> So, I am getting the picture that a possible migration would have been from
> Perth, Scotland to somewhere in the Lowlands, then at some point off to Ulster -
> but which county? - then at some point off to America. My ancestor grandfather
> was buying land in Washington Co., PA in 1781 - at this time he is about 25. In
> 1790 he sells his land and is off to KY with his wife and 3 small children and
> the rest is history.
> Do you think that my above migration scenario is right on or not? Thanks for
> your help and expertise! Sue
> McDuffe family history www.freewebs.com/ladysue
> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place!
> Find it!
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