Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2006-11 > 1163174604
Subject: Re: [S-I] Family Coat of Arms
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 16:03:24 +0000
Hi Kevin, no, generally we don't discuss it much on this list. If you google you'll find a lot. Or visit www.cyndislist.com. The reason is we do not have them, generally speaking. The Ulster Scots were largely farmers and merchants. And ministers. Not gentry. In Scotland it is illegal to use arms that are not yours. They do not belong to anyone with a surname. Only to one person. It's not cool to snitch arms or use others.
For Scottish arms, you need to search on the Internet or ask a Scottish list. This list is Ulster centric. So for Scotland, visit www.rootsweb.com and find a Scottish list. Scotland is a different cou ntry from IReland, so even the arms are different. Or you can start a list for amerginious Scots who moved to Ulster <grin>. Or Scots who assumed arms in Ulster! I guess the latter would be okay here.
The descendents of the Ulster gentry do not hang out on this list either, with a few exceptions. The families that ascended to the gentry who were of Scottish origin generally lost their Scottish ethicity and were Irish by the mid to late 1600s. For example, the McDonnells.
When doing research in Ireland, you tend to use different records when tracing gentry than you do when tracing Ulster farmers. For example, visitations. Their marriages are more often recorded in Church of Ireland records. Their names are more likely to be found in the collections in the National Archives where extensive pedigrees were copied out of records that were later destroyed in the Four Courts fire by genealogists documenting the families of gentry for the purpose of coats of arms, titles, etc. Baronettes were sold under certain conditions that it was easy to fudge. Also O'Hart's 3 vol work on Irish Pedigrees is heavy on the Irish and English/gentry, and almost totally devoid of Ulster Scots. Vol 3 is full of gentry exiled to Connacht by Cromwell, but as the Ulster Scots were not, it's a desert.
So as we have generally not had arms, arms are not a topic of interest here, any more that discussions of vistations, O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees, and other books that are your right hand when researching amerginious families. I do have one who assumed arms in the USA, for no reason other than they wanted them, that I've determined. Their pedigree is also unprovable, so far. The line appears in O'Hart, but largely due to ties with an English family that lost a title in England during the British Civil Wars and got marooned in Ireland for a couple generations before bugging off to America where they did very well. In their case their arms did get them some nice designs on their linen.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Kevin Patterson" <>
> Has anyone done any research into their family coat of arms? Are there any
> good books out there that talk about the coat of arms in general historical
> terms? Are there books that deal with Scottish and Ulster-Scot history with
> regard to the coat of arms?
> I know that my Patterson line came from Aryshire, Scotland to Newry, County
> Down, Ireland
> I'm just interested in learning more about the subject.
> Thank you
> Kevin Patterson
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