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Subject: Re: [S-I] 1609 Pardon List
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 16:38:06 +0000


Hi Jennifer, thanks for the details of McKemie...I was aware of it but few are. Irish case changes occur at the front of the word, so it changes the pronunciation of certain letters. We got the same problem with McCamish, it could be son of Thomas or James, etc. Of course James is Sheamish, so there you go, the S is lost. Due to variants in lenition rules, you got O'Flynns in Connaught and O'Lynns in Ulster. Same people, but Ulster Irish loses the F when it is lenited. On and on...Irish is one strange language.

I really think these are O'Doherty Rebels due to the date and their names. The names place them in a very specific Ulster location. The state papers would tell you or send email to the guy on the website. You can also learn in books like O'Hart's Irish Pedigrees, etc, etc.. All over! The National Library of IReland and PRONI are full of stuff as well as Kew Gardens (state papers). It's a research project.

Yes, Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames" also covers McKemie under Fullerton. Bute seems full of Irish. The McLeays (etc) are Irish in origin and here's some more. Musta been a wee bit underpopulated way back whenever they all came!!

I get real tired of the McCamish emails too. They all believe they descend from Clan Gunn but none of the members of that clan tested are Norse (the tribal history says they were founded by a Viking). They're all R1B (etc)....garden variety Celts, none with the kinda of high octane Ulster prince DNA that the Three Brothers had. No sign of that kinda DNA in Perthshire, but tomorrow, who knows? We've not tested enough DNA yet. Some argue R1B1C7 did not originate in Ireland through mutation but before hand. We don't know, haen't done enough testing yet.

But it does at least give us a way to get beyond the surname, as it can be of little use to us when our ancestors didn't use them or ch anged them at will.

Barra is pretty familiar with Ulster Irish accents and the way they impact Ulster surnames, mainly learned by studying Donegal Irish. I've always said that Irish really helps (Scots Gaelic too), he is proof. Probably the A in both McCamish and McKamie, if I recall what he said, places them right in Ulster, where this vow is prevalent. I hope I'm not mis -remembering. The longer O'd types are more likely from elsewhere, but I would not place a penny on my recalling this correcty....just craic.

I continue to watch for R1b1c7 in Clann Gunn DNA but so far....they don't even conform to the clan's history. It's tough when you were broken. You also find McCamish used by Stuarts and McGregors. The Isle of Mann was positively infested with both McComish and McCamish. It was re-settled by the Irish, but I don't know yet if those folks were R1..c7 or not. It really does show that these Mc names have multiple origins, as the scholars have long said and the family genealogist has refused to accept.

Linda

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