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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2003-07 > 1058718528


From: "Cheryll Reed" <>
Subject: RE: [Sc-Ir] German/Scotch-Irish
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 12:28:48 -0400
In-Reply-To: Resent-Message-ID: <4Td-sD.A.0r.hNsG_@lists5.rootsweb.com>


I believe just such a cross-ethnic mingling is one of the reasons I have
such a huge brickwall in finding my Reeds. In the early 1800's, 3 Reeds
married 3 Kneppers in Franklin County, Pa. The Knepper family is well
documented and were German Baptists. I believe the Reeds were
Scotch-Irish and possibly originally Quakers. It would appear these 3
sibling Reeds were the first generation to cross that ethnic "divide"
because after years of research I've found a great deal on the German
families connected with my Kneppers but absolutely nothing on the Reeds.
It's as if they appear from nowhere with no history or family
connections to cast some light on their parentage.

Does anyone have an idea or ideas of a resource on these
cross-ethnic/religious first generation marriages? I've seen much of
what Linda talks about in the history of early Pa. when it comes to the
German and SI animosity. Tradition has it that Adams county (mainly SI)
was split off from York county (predominately German) because the two
groups bickered so. Would these marriages have been some sort of
scandal --- a Hatfield/McCoy, Romeo/Juliet moment---at the time? My
Reeds ended up Seventh Day Baptists/German Baptists---would their
defection have been cause for a break in relations with family members?

-----Original Message-----
From: Linda Merle [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 2:09 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [Sc-Ir] German/Scotch-Irish

Hi Diane,

That's not easy to answer. The immigrants hated one another, so
the groups settled in colonial America into ethnic enclaves.
That's the mark of colonial America -- ethnic enclaves. People
were often solicited as settlers onto land by someone known to
the community. In an age with few newspapers, few readers, and
no TV or radio, what was important was your personal contacts.
That's why the Chambers brothers (Cumberland/Fayette Cos) were
so successful at getting their Antrim neighbors to come over.

So you do read about how the colonial Germans and Scotch-Irish hated
one another. It is said that the Scotch Irish moved when the
Germans started coming in. However you find plenty of marriages
with Scotch Irish surnames in colonial Pennsylvania marriage records of
Reformed (German) ministers. Apparently when you needed to get
married you were not too particular about the minister. The same is
true in New York of Dutch Reformed church records. Frequent burials
of Scottish and IRish surnames in German Reformed kirkyards suggests
taht these folk attended the German church.

As the next generation became English speaking, inevitably
problems arose in the churches. The native sons wished
church in English and the parents did not. This sometimes
resulted in splits, especially in Saxonville, Butler Co, PA.

Sometimes the English speaking remnants united with the local
Presbyterians to form union churches or the one was absorbed into
the other. I now check all German churchyards and any records I
can get due to the mixing up.

The 2nd and 3rd generations were Americans, with American
values and often with little in common with their parents.
This is still true today. The Vietnamese here in Worcester have
a hard time understanding their own children who do not even look
Vietnamese to themselves or others -- let alone act Vietnamese.
While they themselves, the immigrants, largely married in Vietname,
and their children are pure Vietnamese -- their grandchildren will
be a mix.

So before too many generations you find intermarriages. In
my mother's case, by the third generation, the families in Indiana
Twp, Allegheny CO, were well intermarried by the third generation.

So the immigrants probably didn't marry outside of their ethnic
group, but their children and grandchilden may well have married
neighbors and friends.

Linda Merle

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Diane Graham <>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 11:38:00 -0500

>Did the early (ca. 1700's) Scotch-Irish in Northampton County,
>Pennsylvania tend to mingle with, and/or marry the German people in
>that area, or did each ethnic group keep their distance and have
>little to do with each other?
>
>Does anyone on the list have a good understanding of this?
>
>Thanks,
>Diane in Iowa
>
>

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