Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2002-05 > 1021683930
From: "Carnahan Ranch" <>
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] revolution?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:05:31 -0600
Okay, I'll bite. What do you call...
Ancient Irish sept, with family, business ties, etc., in lowland Scotland,
left Ireland @ 1500, live in Scotland with the Rels for @ 100 years,
returned to Ireland as Scot Planters, in early 1700s left for America.
As me olde Irish Horseshoee always said..."Don't be gettin yer knickers in a
knot" Everyone relax and call them what you will. In your research just be
vigilant and pick up what information you need.
Bess Ware-St. Clair- Ross- Murphy-Carnahan
Guess you can call me traitor as I have about 1/10 English.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carol Smart" <>
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 9:40 AM
Subject: [Scotch-Irish] revolution?
> To which revolution do you refer?
> Begin forwarded message:
> > From: <>
> > Date: Wed May 15, 2002 12:27:19 PM US/Pacific
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Pronunciation--what was said and what the
> > word really way
> > Reply-To: <>
> > Hi Mary,
> > Thanks for the story about pronounciation <grin>.
> >> He wrote, "Moved to Ireland in 1845 by way of Glascow and Belfast.
> > As you probably know, the ethnic group called Ulster Scot or
> > Ulster British in Ulster really evolved out of events in the 1600's
> > in Ulster. Look at their myths: Siege of Derry, the Plantation,
> > origins in Scotland, Battle of the Boyne. Yours didn't move to
> > Ireland till 1845. I am sure they felt different from people whose
> > families were there from the early 1600s.
> > Contining on, the ethnic group called Scotch Irish in the USA
> > came before the revolution. People who came after that seem to have
> > not identified themselves with the earlier folk. Plus it seems that
> > some of the United Irish diaspora prefered to consider themselves
> > Irish. Whatever, by the turn of the 18th century there was a battle
> > raging in the USA over what Presbyterians from the North of Ireland
> > should call themselves.
> > However ETHNICITY isn't GENEALOGY. This list is about helping us
> > trace our family. That's a right brained, cognitive, sleuth-like
> > process, while a study of ethnicity is more of a social science
> > and probably more confusing!
> > So whatever it is your ancestors called themselves (and however
> > it wsa they pronounced their home <grin>), if they were Presbyterians
> > or even Protestants from Ireland, then this list can help in that
> > it is about learning to use records of Protestants in Ireland and
> > elsewhere and methods of tracing them. So if they called themselves
> > the X People, doesn't matter at all for our purposes. We give them
> > and you permission to call them whatever you want. Our ballywick
> > is tracking down Prods in Ireland, preferably Presbyterians. If
> > they on the other hand considered themselves Catholics, well,
> > we don't know much about Catholic records. Any other Irish list on
> > the planet can help you, though. Being from Scotland, though,
> > perhaps that wasn't the case.
> > It seems like people from areas of the planet with ethnic problems
> > produce people with ethnic identity problems. Each of those areas
> > is unique -- the Balkans, the mid east, India, and .... Ireland.
> > So a study of ethnicity in Ireland is particularly interesting.
> > While a Palestinian knowns he's not a Jew, for Ireland, it
> > is not so clear at times, to some individuals or their descendents.
> > At various times various political influences have come to bear
> > as well, like the United Irishmen. I do understand the problems
> > since my grandmother was an American whose family, surnamed
> > KELLY considered themselves mighty Irish but were as Presbyterian
> > as John Knox. Of course a lot of Irish Presbyterians are probably
> > the same. As a frontier people who fight still to preserve their
> > identity, they were more aware of who they are than a Scottish
> > cousin attending a state supported church.
> > You don't find Palestinians who convert to Judaism but still try
> > to cling to an ethnic identity as Palestinian. They are too far
> > apart. Of course you do have Palestinian Christians, etc, but they
> > are too far apart.
> > Not us, we're (I hate to say it) kissin' cousins.
> > Speaking as someone from an all Presbyterian family where some
> > wore orange and some green on St Pat's day (the rest tried to ignore
> > the whole thing). It's confusing.
> > An immigrant coming in the mid 1800's would not even probably be
> > "accepted" by our indiginous British American ancestors. The Pilgrim-
> > sons and daughters would find English immigrants coming 250 years
> > after themselves to be foreigners. Our Appalachian-Americans would
> > also find them a bit odd. I am sure your ancestors, coming to
> > America, would have found THEM very odd. SOme time after 1800, very
> > possibly as a result of the War of 1812, which finally settled things,
> > we set out to create a new ethnic group called "American". Even
> > changed the spelling of the language in order to create a very
> > distinct difference, on every level that they could influence,
> > between our motherlands and the ex-colonies. So we became different.
> > Our boat took off in a different direction. The Australians, the
> > Canadians, the other colonies didn't do that. It wasn't that they
> > didn't become independent: it's that the leaders at one time didn't
> > set out to deliberately create a new people.
> > So your folk, coming in the 1850's were not Scotch-Irish -- that
> > is an American people, like "Iroquois".
> >> I have never been sure whether this area is considered "Scotch-Irish"
> >> territory, but I do know that my grandparents, who were American born
> >> never
> >> considered themselves "Scotch-Irish".
> > And I bet the locals didn'tconsider them so either. "Scotch Irish"
> > usually is a colonial immigrant from Ulster.
> > Linda Merle