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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2002-03 > 1015525319

From: <>
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Baptists
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 10:24:46 -0800

Hi Georgia,

Falley "Irish and Scotch-Irish Ancestral Research" has a whole
chapter on Baptists and Congregationals how to track them down.

Basically there were two sets. The first set manifest in the
mid 1600's and largely come with Cromwell's army. LOTS of them.
Anabaptists and English Presbyterians were the "extremists" in
those days. Cromwell was an Independent, a congregational. He
was a moderate. He wanted to rid England of as many extremists
as possible. His success at introducing some kind of stability is
why he was so well liked. The army is where the extremists
were found. He sent the New Model army, full of English boys
with extremist religious tendencies, off to Ireland. After they
had pacified the Irish, he didn't want them in England. First of
all, they were a danger to him -- military coups. That's how he
got his job, so he was aware of the risk. Secondly he had no
money to pay them off, so he knew they weren't going to be happy.
So he gave them land in Ireland. Many sold their land to their
officers and headed for the West Indies. Some settled down with
Irish women and fathered lots of Irish children. Their grandchildren
often didn't speak English. Only Gaelic. Many a fine Irishman is
descended from them.

In the Commonwealth period the Church of Ireland was basically
run by Baptists and Congregationals. No church baptismal records,
largely. Lots of local variations of course. Once the REstoration
occured, then the church became more typical of itself -- Anglican
with bishops but a little more Calvinist than the church in England.
The Baptists didn't set up separate churches during the Interregnum,
so they had no infrastructure to survive the Restoration. They
disappear. Their children are found in other church records. So
you search CHurch of Ireland records in the 1600's for Baptists.
After about 1680 they weren't Baptists any more. They were Church
of Ireland or Catholic or Presbyterian, Quaker, etc, etc.

Second batch came later, gradually emerging in the 18th century.
She identifies "Thom's Irish Almanac and Official Directory
for the year 1847" that lists the names of Baptist and Congregational
churches and their location. She id's known Baptist churches
on pp 275-6.

NOTE: Falley discusses "big picture" here, generalizations. But
there are always individuals who "swim upstream". So if your family
oral tradition is different, well.....that's interesting. Very
interesting, but it doesn't mean Falley is wrong or that you shouldn't
be aware of what she says, because being aware of the "big picture"
might help you over a brick wall.

<How does one put a "family" picture together at his point? I am <looking for the adhesive. Any and all suggestions will definitely be <appreciated.

At there's very good articles on how
to extensive Irish research. Have you checked these:

"Frank Smith's Inventories: This is probably the single most valuable finding aid to British Isles sources held in the Family History Library collection. Smith's Inventory of Genealogical Sources was compiled by Frank Smith and a team of researchers who searched periodicals, books, and microfilms in the Family History Library Collection and indexed the individual items found in these materials that often not been separately listed in the Family History Library Catalog. For example, the Family History Library Catalog will list the name of a periodical but will not list the individual articles contained within. Smith's Inventory will contain names of the articles. Nancy Bier included a description of Smith's Inventory in the 1996 BIFHS-USA Genealogical Research Seminar Syllabus, pages 9-14. There are inventories for England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. All serious researchers must use both the FHLC and Frank Smith's Inventories.

"Ireland Fiche #6110527

"Richard J. Hayes, Manuscript Sources for the History of Irish Civilisation: these volumes list the location of Irish Manuscripts. The first 11 volumes are in LA FHC on films #1,440,939 - #1,440,943. The Index to Persons is volumes 1-4; Index to Subjects vols. 5-6; Index to Places (by county) vols. 7-8, index to Dates vols. 9-10; and Lists of Manuscripts is volume 11. There is also a Supplement to Hayes at the National Library of Ireland and at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. The Supplement is not on microfilm. See also, Richard J. Hayes, Sources for the History of Irish Civilisation: Articles in Irish Periodicals, found on films #973,222 to #973,230."

Then or at the same time, you explore NIDS: National Inventory of
Documentary Sources. There was a lecture on it at the annual
BIFHS US conference once year. LDS has a copy in Salt Lake and
one in LA. I know there is a copy at one of the local universities
near me here in Boston.

There's a lifetime left of material. Did you check sources in
England? There's lots of records in England on Irish. Can't go to
England? NO PROBLEM. Lots is filmed and in LDS. Chelsea Pensioners?
Collections at PRONI and the National LIbrary in Dublin? Lots of
tehse are filmed too and in the mid 1990's there was a new index
done of the NL mss's. There's also new stuff coming available. Lots
of stuff in Dublin that is not cataloged. I know someone is working
on an index to the inaccessible Kilmainham Pensioners records. These
are filmed but unindexed. Right now. Stay tuned!

However you will probably not find a document that lays out the
family for you. You will need to do a lot of weighing of data.
You need to get very familiar with how to evaluate a record in order
to determine its value, because you'll find a scattering of
info. You'll tend to jump to the wrong conclusions if you don't
learn a lot about the evaluation of evidence. Sometimes for instance
we find a record for a John Smith in Ballyboley, Ireland and then
we find another one 20 years later. Maybe on two muster lists.
We want to assume they are father and son. But they might not be.
We have absolutely no evidence. Could be the same guy. Could be
a man and nephew. Could be two unrelated people. There are ways
of learning to work to gather evidence but you need to learn how
to do that. If you just make unproven assumptions, not only will
you reach a massive brick wall but you will leave behind a worthless,
bogus genealogy.

...Nope, haven't searched all those things. Too busy to explore all NIDS and Smith so far. Just starting on Hayes.

OH, did I mention that at the point you get into these, you
should probably have a good idea where they lived, so you are also
looking for estate records under the name of the estate owners,
hoping to find traces of your ancestors in them? You end up tracing
not your family in these records but the owners of their estate.
THen you go back to the deeds and will indexes and redo those too.
Lots of tenants named in the deeds, for instance. But don't show up
in the deed indexes. Gotta access them by estate owner, unless
your ancstor did own an estate.

Assuming you've searched all the deeds in your county? that's
another strategy Falley mentions. Just read every one of them.

For a quick overview of what around, check Ryan "Irish Records" for
your county. He'll id some not very hard to get sources.

Linda Merle

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