Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2002-03 > 1014993662
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Harkness
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 06:43:06 -0800
A couple comments that might be germane to us all -- since we've
all been where you are!
>We have all been there...when asked for a source...silence. In this case the
>website owner responded immediately to my request and is the reason that I
>am able to pursue this ancestor.
>>You'll need to try to find this place:
>> > 2. WILLIAM HARKNESS of "Garryfine", County Limerick,
>>There is no Garryf* in Lewises Gazettes. There is a townland in
>>Limerickthat by the wildest stretch it COULD be, but you really need
>>to research townlands and placenames in Limerick.
>Garryfine is in Limerick, and I have joined the Limerick list to further
>my inquiry there.
If the name is obsolete then you may need to find a real in
obsolete Limerick placenames. It is not in Joyce's "The Origin and
History of Irish Names of Places". If you want to find it soon, do
some research into how you do locate placenames in Ireland. www.genuki.org.uk is
a good starter. Radford and Betit's "A Genealogists Guide to
Discovering your Ancestors in Ireland" can help immensely.
In Northern Ireland obsolete townland names are not such a problem due
to the "PLacenames of Northern Ireland" series. It documents a lot of
local placenames as well. But Limerick is a little far afield. Ryan
"Irish Records" may indicate a source for Limerick placenames.
>I don't beleive it either! I have seen a well known source used for W. PA
>that states that my family (Buckingham) came from the Palace of the same
>name! I wonder what the Duke of Staffordshire or even the current tennants,
>the Windsors, think of that !
<grin> Maybe though close by. Reaney and Wilson say it comes from
the placename Buckingham and finds it in the piperolls from
1183. Your folk may have owned it before those upstart Windsors took
I am still seeking the return of our Kent estates which were
taken from us in 1451 (first year of the War of Roses). Surname is
CULMER. We later were married off by the Tudors to some Welsh women
(Merediths) by way of compensation. in 1500 we married a BOURCHIER
woman in Delft. Oh, what I wouldn't give to locate her father. Her
first name was Maude, very probable for a Bourchier, but haven't found
any of the Bourchiers having such a daughter. (The Bourchiers crowned
all the kings during the War of Roses and were married into the family.
>I have seen reference to him and he was educated and served in England, not
That's even better news as the records are better.
>> > 5. Margaret, m. James Clarke, M.P.
>Oddly enough, I haven't found him,... yet
He probably was an important person but perhaps not an MP but
some other local magistrate. Sometimes titles get inflated.
Should be easier for you to locate a list of MPs in Westminster
than me over here <grin>. Try BRIT-L.
>There in lies the rub, I do know quite abit about the family in Scotland and
>they did go between Ireland and Scotland, some obviously staying in Ireland,
>the ones returning to Scotland are well documented as they are held in some
>esteem as "Nithsdale Martyrs" from the Covanant "wars".
Sounds like you've done a good job of "scooping out" the big
picture. I'm apparently descended from the Dalrymples (we are now
comparing family traditions of martyrdom <grin>). Mine are in Stirling
but much work remains to be done to find the missing connection.
Both of my parents appear to have Covenantor ancestors.
>Sadly I don't live in the US and the resources available in the North of
>England are virtually non-existant, Most things are only available in London
>and require in-person searching at differant locations. VERY expensive...
There are a lot of Family History Centers in England. Check here:
www.familysearch.org . You can order film from the world's largest
genealogy library at most of them. I also have a professional
friend in London who is certified in Irish research, though mostly
he does English. I can give you his email address.
You can also do more and more on the Internet with English Origins,
for instance, and www.ancestry.com . From LDS you can order many
films of Irish records held in London fairly inexpensively. Your
family would be likely to be in these records since they were gentry.
North of England? My father's paternal ancestors were from County
Durham. Weardale, originally. Emigrated around 1875. Surname MASON
(ENGLISH/GARDNER/IRWIN(etc), ARMSTRONG). They left from Hetton-le-Hole.
I have a semi-helpful family tree at the following URL. It has made
me think a lot about these things. It is the family history as done
by a distant cousin I never met, who self published. She documented
no sources. Some of what she has done I've been able to prove and
I continue to work on it. SOme I am sure is wrong. One person wanted
me to change some names but failed to provide evidence. This is like
saying "The Butler didn't do it! It was the maid!" and refusing to
prove it. Maybe we know the Butler DIDN'T do it but that still doesn't
mean the maid did. How to handle this? Put both on the website?
I think maybe. If I replace hers's then it ceases to be "hers"
and I destroy the integrity of her work. I think I'll put both and
let the reader do the research to decide which is correct from his/
her point of view. Even me standing in judgement isn't so good --
my judgement might be very bad at times. I know that is from
inspecting my past work <grin>.
Oh, the URL is http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~merle/andersons/
Soon to be updated....
I suspect you just need to spend a little time learning how to do
Irish genealogy. It's a study unto itself and then you'll have no
problem with finding these folks.
If you ever get to the local records office and wouldn't mind a
trade of some sort, let me know. The indexes in London don't have
my ancestors. In the 1870's they apparently were evading civil
registration or the indexes missed them. Like to check the local
indexes. We have approximate dates from the censuses for the births
of my great grandpa's siblings.