Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2001-08 > 0998096405
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Irvines
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:00:12 -0700
Hi John, Way back in the 'Lizabethan era (the first one,
that is), Britain was in the spring of her youth and bursting
out all over. Too many people in Merrye Olde England. Hey,
but over there we had Ireland, at the time rather decimated
down in Munsterland due to several civil wars among the local lairdies
(the Ormonds and the Desmonds) and the really bad, I mean REALLY BAD
idea someone had of placating the situation: kill all the cows.
This led to the demise of I think it was 90% of the people in
Munster in one winter. It does make sense that people whose
sole livelihood is their cattle, if they are all killed, die too.
The historians are still fighting about whose fault it was:
the feuding Irish lords or the English. Whatever, everyone was
dead, and no one was paying any rents so it was hard to heat the
ol' mansion and buy Spanish wine. SOmething had to be done. Someone
had the idea of talking some foolish but loyal English to moving to
Ireland. They figured that the improvement in the genepool would lead
to Irish that are more like the English. So they hired a marketing
director and talked some people including the poet Edmund Spenser,
into Moving Over. People paid good money for this honor, which is
good since the Crown was always short of money in those days.
They did that twice and both times the survivers of the prior
wars did away with most of the settlers or planters in Munster and
bred with the rest till they were just more Irish. But it did
bring some more English surnames to Ireland and perhaps a lingering
fondness for fine china with flowers. I at least am fond of such,
much as was my Irish grannie who would have been very happy shopping
in Holywood near Belfast (lots of china) . You've heard of the
term plantation? One is populated with planters. They called
James Town in Virgina the same. It was a plantation. ANd then there
was Plymoth Plantation. The term colony later was prefered.
So when King Jamie decided to try the same with the huge amount of
land that had defaulted to him in Ulster in the early 1600's, it was
of course also called a Plantation. His was the public plantation.
Antrim and Down were private plantations. People with the courage
to come over -- after the debacle of the Elizabethan plantations in
Munster it wasn't exactly easy -- were planters. And planter stock
is us. The descendents of the planters in Ulster.
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "John Erwin" <>
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:20:55 -0500
>What is planter stock?
>> Hi John,
>> >Can anyone tell me where the Irvines lived in N IRE. I've been told but
>have never proven that they lived in the CO Antrim in the 1600's and early
>> I'm sure there were some there. The border clan was dispersed in
>> the early 1600's by King James. They fled to Uslter. It wasn't
>> NI then. NI didn't exist till 1922. I have Irwins in Northern
>> England. McLaysaght says some ERWIN/IRWINs are Irish: a sept
>> of O'Hirwin (o hEireamnoin ) in Offaly, but most are of planter
>> stock, he agrees. Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames" also says they
>> were in Ireland in the early 1600's.
>> Have you checked the Hearth Money rolls and Pendar??
>> Linda Merle