Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2001-07 > 0995114280
From: "Sandra Ferguson" <>
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Seceders in Pa/Ohio
Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 08:38:00 -0400
there seems to be some sort of a problem....I received this same email 10 or
----- Original Message -----
To: <>; Sandra Ferguson <>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] Seceders in Pa/Ohio
> Hi Sandra,
> >I am familiar with the individual church, and have dug up what there is
> >the history of it, and early ministers, who were uniformly from
> >Scotland....and, I also have the earliest lists of church members. I
> >written to and received info from the Historical branch of the
> >Church in Philly, but they have precious little on Seceders, from looking
> >what they send me.
> Right, they probably would have very little on them. If
> you do want to find out what they have, you will have to go there.
> When you write to them, they will provide a brief response. When
> I visited the RP seminary library in Pittsburgh, in two days I barely
> scratched the surface on what was there. I guarentee you they didn't
> spend that kind of time -- unless you paid them. What this means
> is that you must do the research yourself. In researching Reformed
> Presbyterians I read about every history of Presbyterianism that
> I came across in the FHL as well as a few seminary libraries. Maybe
> you are luckier than I, but that is the kind of effort it takes.
> LDS has the major works on Presbyterianism. I'll see if I can
> locate them in the catalog. I should also warn you that there isn't
> "one" history of either congregations or Presbyterianism in the USA,
> though each group writes as if there is only one view and that is its
> own. So you can read about the history of a church and due to the
> whitewashing, never get told that there were splinter groups. These
> things are embarrassing, after all. You will find another church history
> in the area that will speak of its birth from the 'mother' congreg-
> ation -- and only then will you realize there was at some times
> more than one congregation.
> >and it doesn't seem to me that things changed any or splintered.
> You may find differently if you dig. I would suggest a place to
> start is the LDS catalog.
> >Without knowing where they were from (Scotland? Ireland?) I don't quite
> >how I'd know what parish records in either country, to view,
> In Ireland Presbyterians are congregational, as in the USA. In
> your time period it is highly unlikely you will find any congregational
> records. They largely start about 1820 or so.
> looking for
> >them......that was why I was hoping for..... some hint of which country,
> >with the date of arrival.
> This is called immigration research. The hunt for the family
> origin. Again, if you prefer free research, then
> http://genealogy.com/university.html is the very best place to
> go. Or you can buy Carmack's book "Discovering Your Immigrant
> and Ethnic Ancestors". It sells at Borders and most large bookstores
> as well as on line. Rootsweb has a good lesson on immigration
> research: www.rootsweb.com .
> The first place you look for immigrants in this period is Filby.
> Let me say this again. The first place you look for 18th century
> immigrants is Filby. His Passenger and Immigration Lists Index
> is at a local FHC and on CD. You will need more information to
> use it. That help is given at
> http://genealogy.com/university.html .
> > I'm a pretty canny researcher, and traced the Smiths to PA by
> >for what I believed were the namesakes of several of their children; I
> >couldn't believe that Andrew Finley Smith and Andrew Duncan Smith weren't
> >named for existing people....
> I suspect that they are as well. This brings us to Scottish/Scotch-
> Irish naming patterns. use of a middle name suggests to me that they
> were middle class. Being middle class suggests to me other kinds of
> records that they might appear in.
> As you attempt to do research in foreign countries, you m ust always
> pause and learn how to do research in those countries. The records
> are different in both Scotland and Ireland. How you access them is
> very different.
> I would suggest to you that you have not found t he repository for
> information on the Seceders and that avenue may help you weed out
> the rest of the Smiths who were not Seceders. I know it has helped
> me with Andersons and Blacks (Reformed Presbyterian).
> > if I found Andrew and there were Smiths in his
> >"home" congregation, how would I know if they were "my" Smiths or
> >not........it's just a terrible name to work with!
> It's a rough one. For more advice than I can type in see the
> above website, and do check Filby if you haven't already.
> "Buick's Ahoghill" published by the Mid Antrim Historical Group has
> a brief history of the Secessionist church in Ireland, explaining how
> may Presbyterians left Scotland "for conscience's sake" due to the
> non-separation there of church and state which induced what was to
> some an "openly-expressed latitude in matters of doctrine". This
> caused some Presbyterians in Ireland to lean towards the Seceders,
> who grew to look on Ireland as the "mission-field" of the time.
> To give you a sense of the time, the FIRST secessionist minister
> was ordained in Ireland in 1746 according to this book. Where this
> book can be invaluable is it tells us that on March 22, 1770
> Bryan McManus, Esq, of Mount Davys, leased the plot of land called
> Magg's Knowe that was one acre in size to Matthew Herbison of Bally-
> conley, James McKeown of Ballybeg, both farmers, James Coulter
> of Ahoghill, shopkeeper, and Thomas Meek of Moneydolog, linendraper,
> as trustees for a congregation fo Seceders. (p 22).
> In footnotes it goes on with more detail on these trustees.
> We are told that the family of Matthew Herbison were still on the
> farm in Ballyconley in 1901 and that 40 or 50 years before that
> there were two families of that name in the village. The family
> was still Seceder in 1901. There were several McKeown families in
> Ballybeg who were Seceders, we are told, but some went to the
> 2nd Portglenone, which we are told was also a Secession church.
> Huge amounts of detail here that will clearly help anyone id
> secessionist surnames. What I'm saying is that often huge amount
> of info does exist. But like this book -- there's no index. The
> only way to know if there are Smiths there is to read the whole
> All these folk had Scottish ministers. In the early 1700's in
> America there were very few ordained American ministers. There were no
> seminaries. See Hanna "The Scotch-Irish" for a history of early
> presbyterianism in the USA -- he'll talk about Tenant's log cabin
> school. My relation the Rev Charles Clinton Beatty went to it.
> Best of luck,
> Linda Merle