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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2001-03 > 0985168368


From: Charles Clark <>
Subject: Re: [Scotch-Irish] English Customs (Caveat emptor))
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:52:48 +1200
References: <ee.129b9725.27e604ed@aol.com> <3AB8936C.3525@snet.net>


Yeeha! Given that 3/4 of mine appear in Burke, I like it, and just have to rub it
in! Though mostly mine are in Burke's Irish editions, and the fact is that the
English lot think of ours as Irish and look down on same, even as the Irish think
of us as English and start loading their weopons.
One of the lessons I learned from the therapy texts is that anything you have a
strong feeling about, you have a connection with. Doesn't matter if the feeling is
positive or negative, it's the fact of having a feeling about it. I rather
remember, Daphne, the time you describe, and wasn't at all surprised. Whether you
are Anglophobe or Anglophile, you certainly seemed to have an opinion on the
English and hence a connection with same.
Of course, I identify with a lot of the rest of what you say, part of my equivalent
journey has been to get used to having Francis Stuart as my relly. He spent WWII in
Germany, broadcasting over German radio to Ireland and advocating Irish neutrality,
very much part of the Nazi propaganda machine, and a figure that all and sundry
were ashamed to acknowledge for years. He was part of the Irish minor gentry too,
though he pretty much cut himself off from it all.
But there's one bit of your post that I won't let you away with. You say that
"Finally, the vast majority of the English were laborers, serfs or servants; they
produced the goods and services that the upper classes took in as rents and taxes.
They did not make the decision to colonize other countries." Given that, as you
say, "at least 1/4 of my ancestors were among the English minor peerage", I take it
you mean that your ancestors were among those who did make the decision to colonize
other countries????? (Oh, all right, so were mine, in both Canada and Australia)
Charlie

Daphne Kilbourn-Jacob wrote:

> Dear Oleoghain and other List Members,
> About a year ago, I received an extensive amount of genealogical data
> from a cousin who is a Morman. It showed that at least 1/4 of my
> ancestors were among the English minor peerage. As an Anglophobe I went
> into shock and shared my feelings with the List. Lots of members
> responded with sympathy and common sense. I survived. The main point I
> want to make is that when we undertake the search for our ancestry, we
> are taking the risk of discovering that we are not necessarily going
> to affirm our preconceived ideas about our identities. We will
> probably find out that some of our forebearers were inimical to our
> ideologies and painful to our self images. In my case, I felt and
> identified strongly with my Scottish and Scotch-Irish ancestors'
> struggles and ideals. The new data required a lot of self re-examination
> and work to find out how the English sense of superiority and aggression
> affected my identity. I was able to understand where some of my less
> desireable traits (and strengths) fitted in, but it was difficult.
> There is a risk in seeking to rediscover our
> personal pasts. If we want the truth of our histories, genealogy is
> the way to pursue this. If we want preserve our own personal mythology,
> it is perhaps better not to take the risk of researching family history.
> Finally, the vast majority of the English were laborers, serfs or
> servants; they produced the goods and services
> that the upper classes took in as rents and taxes. They did not make the
> decision to colonize other countries.
> Regards,
> Daphne Jacob
>
> wrote:
> > Some English customs are partitioning the countries of other peoples and then
> > killing, maiming, deporting the natives, wiping out their languages and
> > taxing them into submission.
> >
> > Gobnait Ni Leoghain


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