Scotch-Irish-L Archives

From: <>
Subject: [Scotch-Irish] Kings in Ireland
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:50:14 -0800

Hi Dave,

>James King was said to have been from Northern Ireland.

I bet not! Northern IReland didn't exist till 1922. What exactly
did whatever you are quoting say?? This may seem like a silly point,
but as you engage folks on the island of Ireland, if you misuse
these terms, they will assume you are ignorant. Just as you would
laugh at an Englishman who thought Pennsylvania was full of cactus,
cowboys, and rattlesnakes. It reduces the amount of cooperation and
information you get.

>I cannot find any ship lists with them
>or their children on it.

Dave, you are using a 19th century methodology in the 18th century.
Do you understand why 19th century ship lists exist? If you did,
you would know why a ship list is not probably going to be a useful
methodology in the 18th century. Probably the best free place
to learn about this is

http://genealogy.com/university.html -- courses on immigration
methodology. Rootsweb has some good ones too. Or buy and read
Cormack's book "Discovering your Immigrant and Ethnic Ancestors".

>I have checked the LDS
>website for marriages and have found a James King who married a >Margaret at
>about the same time frame as my ancestors, but it says they married in >a
>Catholic church.

It's not clear at all what you checked there. LDS has a number of
indexes -- IGI, Ancestry File, and Pedigree File to name 3. It also
has a surname index to its library. It's possible there is a book
on your couple in LDS. Have you checked the catalog surname search?

In any case, all you are searching is an index, not an actual record.
You always look at the original record.You also always need to
understand what is in the index. In no case does IGI or Ancestry File
(etc) complete, especially for Ireland. You also canno assume that
because you found a single event for these two common surnames that
these are your people. IGI coverage for Ireland is not good at all.

> Margaret it is said was of Scotch-Irish decent, but says
>nothing of James.

My grandfather always claimed to be "Pure" Scotch Irish. His
ancestors are Ulster Scots, Scots (from Scotland, direct), Irish,
English (distantly related to the present queen), and gee, I think
that's all we found so far!

> Since they were Presbyterians here, I am led to believe that they >were
>Scots.

They may well not have been. Lots of Irish Presbyterians about.
English ones as well!

> James was born in 1711. Tracing the King name in Scotland I have
>found that they were a Sept of the MacGregor Clan.

You need to gather data on the ancestor and not make leaps of
fantasy. In Ireland, according to Bell "The Book of Ulster Surnames"
the name KING can be English (perhaps a majority of Ulster Kings
are, although throughout Ireland a number of Irish surnames were
anglicized to King. It is also found in Scotland, in Berwickshire,
Fife, Aberdeenshire. These lowland Kings never had a clan, like
at least 60% of all Scots.

You need to take your questions on McGregors to a Scottish list,
though there is no evidence your Kings were McGregors or Scots.

>It seems that I have come to a fork in the road and can't decide wether to
>take the path well traveled or the one less traveled by. Can anyone really
help me?

Yes, but you must help yourself. You need to become much more
familiar with methodologies. You need to spend some time reading
up on Irish genealogy and perhaps genealogical proof in general.
Its so easy to jump at any fantasy when we want to find our
ancestor's origins and we need to be constantly reminded that genealogy
is cognitive. It is about collecting data and devising theories
based on data. Having the surname King is not sufficient data
to surmise the people were of any particular ethnic origin in Ireland.
Your first stop for Uslter surnames is Bell "Book of Ulster Surnames".
If the name is in there it can help you figure out that the surname
is not going to help you find the family's origins. However there
are other methodologies that will.

http://genealogy.com/university.html is the way to go.

Best of luck,

Linda Merle

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