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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2001-01 > 0980275053


From: "Edward Andrews" <>
Subject: RE: [Scotch-Irish] Did Scot Catholics Immigrate To Ulster Around End of 17th Century
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:37:33 -0000
In-Reply-To: <001301c084e5$fb0a3020$03000004@h8k1x8>


Paul has asked a real beauty of a question. I don't think that I can answer
it per se, but I may be able to point in the right direction.
The history of the Roman Catholic families of Scotland is a pretty
specialised topic. There were very few Roman Catholic Martyrs in Scotland in
Post Reformation times. In was not until 1617 John Ogalvie was executed,
though it could be argued that the execution of Witches may have been
another way of disposing of religious dissent which looked towards a
sacramental form of worship.
It is important also that we do not take Presbyterian anti Episcopalian
polemics to mean that the Episcopalians - of which there were a considerable
number in the Highland region up until well after the Revolutionary
Settlement, are confused with the Real Roman Catholics, pretty well confined
to the Islands, Lochaber and Huntley.
Linda is very strong on the relationship between the Scots of the Highlands
and of North Antrim. They are a very different people from the traditional
Lowlanders who are supposed to have been involved in the Plantation. Whether
they were Roman Catholic would depend on just when. It is very important
that we remember the Irish Franciscan mission to Scotland from say 1620 to
1646, and the relationship between the Wild Irish and Montrose.

Having qualified my answer, I would find it difficult to find a reason why
a practicing Roman Catholic would wish to go to Ulster between say 1610 and
1690, except for a very short period of the ascendancy of James II.

The Innes Review people who are the historians of the Roman Catholic Church
in Scotland might well be able to tell you the chances of Chisholms being
Roman Catholic in the late 17th Century.

I think that you should remember that most of the people like Makemie who
did go to America, seem to have been the children of first generation
migrants from Scotland.

In brief.
There were not many Roman Catholics in Scotland by say 1689. What there
were would have been more likely to have been in the Highlands.
There were connections between the Highlands and Ulster, out outside the
usual plantation history.
There are no good reasons why a practicing Roman Catholic would have got to
17th Century Ulster.
I would submit that your ancestor probably went directly from Scotland to
America.
I would however check with the Scotland list - though I'd be surprised if
you got a knowledgeable answer there on this topic.
Edward Andrews



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul McAfee [mailto:]
> Sent: 23 January 2001 02:41
> To:
> Subject: [Scotch-Irish] Did Scot Catholics Immigrate To Ulster Around
> End of 17th Century
>
>
> First of all, I don't know if this message is off-topic or not.
> If Catholic Scots were early emigres to Ulster then it is
> on-topic. Let me explain.
>
> I have Chisholm (Chisum) family members in Amelia County Virginia
> in the early 1700's. I have always believed these folks were
> Scots Irish but now I am not sure. I have never seen any evidence
> of it one way or the other. I am wondering if they were,
> instead, Catholic Scots who came to America directly from
> Scotland or North Britain and never tasted of the Irish
> experience. The ancestor of the Chisholm fella seems to have been
> born, supposedly, in London.
>
> A clue on this is that one Chisholm family member married the
> daughter of a Catholic (a Girlington) who came to Virginia from
> Lancashire County. The father of the bride had been a member of a
> leading recusant family in Lancashire before coming to America.
> On his death in 1772 he left everything to the Chisholm who
> married his daughter. In the ensuing generations that came after
> this marriage there were many marriages with Scots Irish persons
> but neither my Chisholm ancestor nor his English bride seemed to
> have had a drop of Ulster spirit. Would a man described as a
> devout Catholic have let his daughter marry outside of the faith
> and then will him all his money and property to boot?
>
> Paul
>
>

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