Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 2000-10 > 0970753704
From: Dr Stuart Ross <>
Subject: Re: Church of Ireland?
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:48:24 +0100
that was actually the point i was suggesting (trying to). i have a
perspective of what's "wrong" with the rc church's doctrines. this may have
been completely different from what my ancestors thought and which led to
HOWEVER, perhaps what my ancestors felt was wrong with the established
church is causally related to what has subsequently happened to the church -
due to its hierarchical system - and as you say the notion of papal
infallibility that crept in after the reformation.
clearly my whimisical language here was not up to scratch to convey my
apologies to all
bow to my superiors
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Andrews <>
Sent: 05 October 2000 14:38
Subject: RE: Church of Ireland?
> Hang on Stu. We are getting a wee bit near the bone here.
> One of the things which I have to do is to write impartial history as far
> as I'm able.
> It appears that my theological bias isn't showing, for which I am very
> On the Historical line, I think that people should try and put the
> splits in the Church into their context. Many of the things which people
> think of in terms of belonging to one tradition or the other in fact
> to the Church as a whole, not to any one branch of it.
> In 17th Century Scotland there were very few Roman Catholics - probably
> less than 1%. The division was between Presbyterians and Episcopalians. As
> the names suggest these are alternative forms of Church government. All
> sources - which I can cite if you want, make the point that until the 18th
> Century there were only minimal differences between the Presbyterian and
> Episcopalian form of service - During Restoration times (Episcopal) the
> service included the Lord's Prayer, and there were doxologies on the
> However after the Glorious Revolution the Scottish Episcopalians began to
> use the English Prayer book (or perhaps Laud's Liturgy), while the
> Presbyterians continued to worship in a form governed by the Directory of
> Public Worship.
> The areas of difficulty between the Reformed tradition and Rome which you
> cite are all modern additions which have all been introduced in the 20th
> Century. They and the doctrine of papal infallibility of 1870 provide what
> would appear an insuperable barrier to closer structural relationships
> between Rome and Reformed, not to mention to recent deeply offensive
> declaration Dominus Isus.
> I think however that we should depart from this particular development of
> this thread.
> Edward Andrews
> Table of sources of worship in Church of Scotland (main line)
> 1560 - 1650. John Knox Book of Common Order. (in 1637 there was an attempt
> to impose Laud's Liturgy)
> 1650 - 19th Century Westminster Directory of Public Worship.
> 19th Century to 1940. There were a variety of forms of worship, some
> following the directory, other reflecting Eucologion, or other books.
> 1940.- Date. Book of Common Order 1940. Further books published 1979, and
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dr Stuart Ross [mailto:]
> > Sent: 05 October 2000 12:13
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Church of Ireland?
> > mmm, dunno. the mary movement and other oddities not in the bible is
> > gets many a sheep straying!
> > assumption, "immaculate" conception, etc. though in a historical
> > sense the
> > prime movers were probably those collecting the coffers!
> > stu
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Edward Andrews <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: 05 October 2000 10:21
> > Subject: RE: Church of Ireland?
> > > > Excuse a wee comment from one who has little knowledge of these
> > > > things, but
> > > > a lot of the conflict seems to result from a disagreement about the
> > > > hierarchy of the religious organization rather than a
> > difference in the
> > > > actual religious beliefs .
> > > > Thanks to you both, I have learned a lot from your
> > discussions, and
> > > > appreciate the exchanges. Virginia
> > >
> > > That is absolutely right. in the 17th Century there was very little
> > > difference either in form of worship or doctrine in Scotland.
> > Things were
> > > slightly different in Ireland. The question was that of authority,
> > > Pope, or Bible? This is still substantially the major division in
> > > Christendom.
> > > Edward
> > >