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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2000-08 > 0967579554


From: "Charles.Clark" <>
Subject: Re: Is there an EIRE in Ireland? (now...are we all Royals)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:54 -0400
References: <200008282038.AA114557204@mail.fea.net>


wrote:

> Hi Charlie,
> Frances Ann Vane-Tempest,
>
> If me ancestress was 'well known' it wasn't for her daddy's mines,
> and I suspect not too many Durham coalminers want to be related to
> them Vanes!

Everyone has their price, and money makes a lot of people change their
minds. Story goes of one Clark ancestor who married a Hall who had no sons,
just daughters, that his father-in-law offered him £10,000 to take the name
Clark-Hall and keep the name alive. Comment from another relly was that "for
£10,000 I'd take the name shiite"! And the thought of owning one or two of
those coalmines might have a little influence on a Durham coalminers
"wants", I should think!

> I can hear my granddad chuckling at the suggestion. Not that
> the Durham coalminers might like to get their hands on them,
> it's true, but I doubt if it would be to make a few more of them.
> Most would like to see a few less of them.
>
> And when I prove the link to Eddie III or the Chichesters I'll dash
> off to join the Black Sheep Society, who will welcome me with open
> arms. Charlie, you must be a charter member with all your worthy
> ancestors???

Well actually that seems to be the point of it all, though I've never
bothered with the Black Sheep Society, mine seem to be blacker than most of
what I might find there! Start with Francis Stuart, who broadcast for the
Nazis during WWII, with Lord Haw-Haw, who of course got hanged for it. But
Francis's process of becoming an outsider, which culminated in his WWII
exploits, began with finding himself in a disadvantaged position within his
family of origin, the Stuarts and Montgomerys of Dervock. A fair bit to do
with his father's suicide four months after he was born. And it is
extraordinary the lengths that families of the minor aristocracy will go to
in denying their past in order to paint themselves as acceptable to polite
society. I mean they have to get rid of incriminating connections to
presbyterians for example (though I can understand them doing that, of
course...)

> I don't know the father's name of my Maude Bourchier, who was married
> in Delft, Holland about 1500.

Tactful way of putting it!

> Her husband Anwyn Culmer was a scholar
> on the continent. His father was factor and stewart to the archbishop
> of Cornwall and Devon. Her father was in Delft on business, says the
> family history. I've researched the Bourchiers but not found a Maude.
> Apparently the Culmers were Yorkists, as they lost their estate in
> Kent in 1451 and were patronized by the Tudors. Now what I'd like to
> learn is that I'm closely related to Sir John Bourchier, the man who
> taught Henry VII about the King Author legends. He's one of my heroes,
> he is. (Nope, wasn't me who traced the line back that far, it was
> a Methodist minister cousin about 1900) Maude is a nice name for a
> Bourchier, though, since they are descended from Queen Maude. They
> are also related via the bar sinister to Willie the C, but then again,
> who isn't? They were late-arriving Normans, missed Hastings.

Most of the Normans were, I suspect. I understand that there are only about
15 Normans who are actually named as having been present thereat. Which
leaves plenty of room for fakery. My favourite in this line is the
Fitzgeralds, who claimed to be descended from the Trojans (see
http://www.jbending.demon.co.uk/ancestor.htm , does anybody still take
genealogy seriously after reading that little lot?)

> Maybe
> too busy fabricating a fake earldom to hear the tooting of the horn.

Weren't they all!!!!

>
>
> Linda Merle




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