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Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2000-06 > 0960331712


From: "Phil Andrew" <>
Subject: Re: Are the Ulster-Scots Celtic?
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 17:48:32 -0500
References: <E12zRdJ-0005kP-00@sand6.global.net.uk>


Mark, et al.

The media would have us believe that Celtic means Ireland, Irish, jiggery
pokery 4/4 music with triplets on every beat, and other misconceptions.

Heck the Irish believe they are the only Celts. If you don't believe me,
ask them. In the states, it is pronounced Sellt (rhymes with smelt), and
Celtic (keltick) is only understood by a few history buffs (like me).
Actually the Celts were such a widespread group that we are all probably
Celts under the skin. Modern day Germans, Spanish, French, and yes, many of
the Cajuns who are my near and dear neighbors here in South Louisiana are
probably Celtic in heritage.

I base my remarks on Leyburn's book, and on my own observations of cultural
traits that seem to me to identify the Celtic family.

Yours Aye!

Phil Andrew

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Thompson <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2000 1:12 AM
Subject: Are the Ulster-Scots Celtic?


> This may sound like a strange question, but I'm interested in how people
> feel about this. Here in the British Isles, Scotland, Wales, Northern
> Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are occasionally referred to as the
> "Celtic Nations", and this alleged Celtic ancestry is used to explain all
> kinds of social phenomena - the fiery passions etc etc (yawn).
>
> I know there are two ways to answer the question - the deeply academic
> anthropological answer which will explain about population movements
through
> Europe since around 10,000 BC, or the simplistic pop-culture answer which
is
> all about tacky craftshop motifs, new age music and red hair. And it's
> cooler to claim to be a cultured Celt than a dour Saxon...
>
> To the Ulster-Scot in the street, (many of whom are probably unaware of
> their status as Ulster-Scots!) Celtic means Glasgow Celtic Football Club,
> and subsequently Green Oirishness and Irish Nationalist ideologies. Celtic
> would probably be a term most of these Ulster-Scots would shun, for
whatever
> reason.
>
> There was a brilliant article by Kevin Myers in the Sunday Telegraph a few
> years ago entitled "Who Do the Scots Think They Are?", where he destroyed
> the notion of Scotland as a "Celtic" Nation, particularly the South of
> Scotland (which of course is where the ancestors of the vast majority of
> Ulster-Scots came from). Myers himself is a Dubliner, and therefore well
> exposed to the stuff that passes for "Celticness" in ROI.
>
> So where does this leave us? Does "Celtic" when used in the U.S. also
equate
> to a Green Irish stance, and therefore the use of the term actually
damages
> the Ulster-Scots message of being a people who live in Ireland yet who
> aren't Irish?
>
> "Celtic" is probably a useless term, but it is used daily. What
impressions
> does it leave behind? Should we actively seek to use it, or determine to
get
> rid of it?
>
> I don't know, but I hope it might stimulate some thinking...
>
> (I also hope this isn't off-list, Linda!)
>
> Yours Aye,
>
> Mark
>


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