Scotch-Irish-L Archives

Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 2000-05 > 0957383328


From: "Ulster Culture" <>
Subject: RE: Scotch Irish Ethnicity, what is it?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 19:48:48 GMT



Ahh I feel left out!. I'm definately Ulster-Scots and Ulster-British. I
was born in Ulster and now live in England but I've never been to the USA
(unless Canada counts).

Tim

Ulster culture
http://ulsterculture.freeservers.com

>From: "Edward Andrews" <>
>Reply-To: <>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Scotch Irish Ethnicity, what is it?
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:42:58 +0100
>
>
> We are fortunate that two issues have come together, that of Scotch Irish
>Ethnicity and the question of "Orange"
>
> I think that we have to appreciate that there is a considerable
>difference
>between the Scotch Irish, and the Ulster British.
> The S-I are really an American - in the widest sense - tribe. They
>reflect
>their situation and history more than the current Ulster situation.
> I tend to think that the important part of the hybrid is the Scotch part.
> There is little doubt that many Americans have a love affair with
>Scotland.
>We have debated on this list in the past whether they really see the "real"
>Scotland. The debate is in the archive.
> When I was preaching in Virginia in the Fall, I found that there were
>interesting perceptions of Scottishness. On Scottish lists there are always
>questions which imply a view of "Scotland" which does not accord with the
>present. Thank God Linda protects us from such things.
> The American view is something which you as that people have to work out.
>(I suspect that others who have moved to Commonwealth countries have their
>own perception of what it means to be S-I)
>
> The Ulster British on the other hand are my tribe. I am coming to the
>conclusion that the nearest parallel are the Anglo-Indians.
> I remember getting thrown out of a pub in Manchester for being Irish. But
>I'm not Irish I'm British. Not with that accent you are not!!!
> We certainly are Irish. We have different attitudes from the British
>British. When I was in Ayr where there were a lot of Ulster British, some
>of
>us met together regularly and always spent time discussing the differences.
>At time it was pretty uproarious, at times people hurt..
> I am convinced that we probably have more in common with the Ulster
>Irish,
>than many of them have with the Irish Irish. (I am purposely avoiding a
>political analysis)
> It however ill behoves someone form the Ulster Brits who has consciously
>walked away from the situation over there to comment to dogmatically on
>what
>is a quite fluid situation.
>
> Orange is short hand for Protestant. Like much short hand it covers at
>least as much as it exposes. Orange is an organisation with a particular
>history and tradition, as well as a political and religious agenda. Orange
>actually represents only a small proportion of the Ulster British. you are
>born Ulster whatever. you choose to be Orange.
> Our Irish member who was writing suggesting that the list appeared Orange
>was probably reflecting the fact that we are coming from different places.
>They have identified these attitudes with "Orange". They are not Orange per
>se, but reflect the S-I culture, which is much more wide spread within the
>community than "Orange". It really is important that the S-I and the UB are
>not identified with "Orangism", which is a movement with their own
>particular positions.
> The Orange list which was posted a few weeks ago is very much "Orange" in
>a
>way that the S-I list isn't.
>Edward Andrews
>St. Nicholas Buccleuch Parish Church Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland
>Visit our Web site
>http://www.btinternet.com/~stnicholas.buccleuch/index.htm
>
>
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > Your post is very interesting. I felt that the most defining
> > characteristics
> > that outlast the rest in the diaspora were the ethical and religious
>tags
> > and I suspect you'd agree.
> >
> > In attempting to sort out my own identity and ethnicity in America -- a
> > different experience from Portadown, I suspect -- I still return to that
> > shared historical experience and what you describe so well as
> > "a belief in a unified and bickering identity group. " I beleive
> > Ruth Dudley
> > Edwards in her book "Faithful Tribe" also makes a point of the
> > individualism
> > that is prevalent within the Ulster community.
> >
> > And yes it is true that the "experts" are still sorting out what
>ethnicity
> > really is. As a person with a massive personal ethnic problem, I gotta
> > sort it out "my way", which I guess is rather Ulster Scots/Scotch Irish.
> >
> > I like the term "Ulster British" and I wish it were used more frequently
> > in the USA since it incorporates English, Irish, Dutch, German, French
>--
> > all those folk besides the Scots who comprise these people and "British"
> > signifying a more holistic orientation as opposed to a Gaelic
>nationalist
> > identity, which is exclusive.
> >
> > Linda Merle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

This thread: