Scotch-Irish-L Archives

Archiver > Scotch-Irish > 1998-06 > 0898396281

From: linda Merle <>
Subject: Re: Sample/Semple
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 19:31:21 -0700

Hi Maggie,

>If the Scotch-Irish weren't considered Irish, what where they?

They came from Ireland, but due to the history of racial conflict there,
like to think of themselves as Irish. The Scots were about the only group to
not assimulate into "Irishness" -- the English, including the Cromwellean
soldiers, did. The Scots were close enough to Scotland to retain close ties.
And since they were denied access to all institutions of higher education,
like Trinity, because they were Presbyterians, they sent their children back
for education.

>During what time frame was the migration from Ulster to the USA?
Generally the 18th century with the first ships coming in 1718 and three
large waves. However people are still arriving. And before that many were
sent off by Cromwell to the West Indies.

However if you read "Albion's Seed" by Fischer, he maintains that many who
think they are Scots-irish had ancestors who emigrated directly from the
of Scotland and England. No one agrees with him, that I've read. One of the
difficulties is that many border folk fled to Ireland to avoid James I/VI's
of the borders, so you have the same surnames in both places. Only lots of
genealogical work will determine the truth.

The irony is if you really are Irish you can probably trace your family back
a lot farther than if you are Scots. The Irish have far better records than
the Scots
and because the English were constantly attempting to dis-enfranchise
the disloyal and give their land to the loyal and English -- or Scottish --
they kept
scrupulus records of who had what land what their ancestory was. And many of
the Irish genealogies (Irish history is family history) were saved for us
by the
writers or compilers of the Four Annals and the other great books of the
nation. They were the last of the great seanchies. Consequently the Irish have
the oldest literature and the longest genealogies in Europe.

Depending on the family and the location you can do okay though. Someone
traced one English side of my family (Ulster Scots gg grandad married Englsih
girl in USA) , in 1900 back to around 860 -- when the first Viking ships
over in Kent. These ancestors were Swedish. They settled on Thanet and got
baptised and became scribes. We've been going down hill since the Tudor era,
when one married the sister of Henry VIII's admiral and one was a lady in
to Eliz I. Though one was a general under Cromwell (but stayed in England). He
broke the glass in Canterbury and was so awful his parishioners tried to
bribe him
into going away by promising to pay his stipend if he did. He was afraid of
and always wore blue, so he is known as "Blue Dick Culmer". History does get
its revenge!! His direct descendents moved posthaste to Holland after the
restoration, which is good! We don't miss them ourselves.

Hope this helps,

:omda <er;e , oops Linda Merle

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