Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 1997-10 > 0877100123
From: linda Merle <>
Subject: Re: "Orange"
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 07:55:23 -0700
I didn't mean to imply that "reason or objectivity" is at the heart of
the appeal" of Orange songs -- or even -- William III. What I used
the term in regards to was that discussing these things are a
folklorist or student of culture without responding to the politics
is using reason and is objective.
Too often, in the USA anyway, the minute the topic is brought up,
some one tries to silence you. I might reference a post I made on the
Borders list (English/Scottish borders) when it seemed the English
were disgruntled -- lotsa Scots and they wanted to know if English
were welcome. So I make a post saying yes and adding I am 1/4th English
and a few other silly things I do not recall -- point being nothing
political. I got email from an American on the list telling me I had
made an Orange post. It made me angry. It was an attempt to silence
me -- because even if you are not clear what "Orange"is, it was clear
that it was "bad" and so I should stop.
There's a lot of "cultural assacination " (I can't spell it today), even
on the internet. Right now GENBRIT is complaining about "Irish" posts.
At least the GENIRE folk don't complain about "Orange" posts!
So in the USA where Irish culture is widely available, "Orange" is not.
Partly because often you do get told to stop making Orange posts --
which I repeat -- are posts with no political content. William III as
a cultural icon, is not necessarily a political or sectarian topic,
any more than "old King Cole" is.
The only way to depoliticize history is to get to know it and to discuss
it. Hiding it away doesn't work. And it leaves people rootless. Which
some reason, bothers some of us.
I am both Irish and Ulster Scots and I like both traditions. I even own
a lot of Irish Republican music. Its very creative stuff. I suspect no
really understands the relationship between Orange music (not lyrics:
and Irish music. When I was in Northern Ireland I played some Irish
Republican music for a loyalist friend -- and he doubled over in
He recognised most of the tunes as Orange songs. Yet the Irish
were convinced these were indiginous Irish tunes. If you read "tune
you find some of them appear to not be. Some are. I suspect it has gone
both ways. The Orange tradition also borrows tunes from the Scots and
applies its own lyrics. It's fascinating. And studying it and both
and Irish traditions objectively (without assuming political content)
has brought a number of people together across the cultural and
divide. It's healthy and healing.
Oh for the day when you could sing "Sarsfield's Men" followed by "The
Green Grassy Slopes of the Boyne" and all anyone thinks is "Dang good
I might also add that we can talk about it here on the internet to
an international group, but in Ulster Orange and Irish music have
content usually. As someone who is Irish,
English, Scots, and Ulster Scots, I want to explore all sides of myself.
I want all the fighting to stop and everyone to get along. Within me and
without. That includes both my Orange side and my Irish.
|Re: "Orange" by linda Merle <>|