RHEA-L Archives

From: <>
Subject: Fwd: Londonderry
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:02:03 -0400 (EDT)

Check this out, especially the part about Derry. and a Mr. Wray

Pat
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: (linda Merle)
Reply-to:
To:
Date: 97-10-11 14:23:06 EDT

Hi Gail, we have forgotten a lot of history -- which makes it tough
to do genealogy or to understand inherited trauma in our families
sometimes.

A good source for info is Charles A Hanna "The Scotch Irish", 2 vol,
0 8063 0168-6 , now published by the Genealogical Publishing Co
of Baltimore, Maryland. They are on the internet -- I know you
can find them from Family Tree Maker's site. The book is out of
print -- we need to get them to reprint it. It costs $75.00. It
starts with the Anglo Saxon Chronicals and includes a lot of info
on history. It lists for example all the Scottish Bishops,
Chamberlains, and members of the Scottish parliament to 1707,
as well as the Ragman's Roll (gentry who had to pledge allegence
to Eddie I. The Ragman's Roll is rather funny -- the "English"
king was Norman and spoke French, as did his scribes. So you get
"Thomas, abbot de Scone, et le couent de mesme le lu" . Surnames
were not yet fixed --- but hey, it's a good laugh to see them
trying to render Scots names into French.

It has details on the Great Plantation of James I/VI, including
all the major Scots "undertakers" as they called them and where they
had their land. Part of the deal was you had to develop it, so
the English Gov. sent out officials to check. These list everything
down to new wells. Minor tenants are alas not named.

In addition to English settlers, Cavan was Irish. Under Derry in
the Carew Manuscripts we have "Derry: Next we come to Derry, where
we saw the church well slated and repaired...A thatched house wherein
Mr. Wray dwelleth...Two fair lime-kills. A fair wharf of
300 foot long...." In 1619 they sent out Nicholas Pynnar to do
a survey. Under English Undertakers (Vol II p 537) he lists many
in Armagh as well. "1500 acres, John Dillon: brick house half
built; no bawn; two villages; 3 freeholders; 26 lessees; able
to produce 40 men with arms."

The Londoners Plantation had 92 houses containing 102 families
that year. Colerane was not so well off: "Town so poorly inhabited
that there are not men to man a sixth part of the walls." Much
of Londonderry went to London Guilds, so you have:L
3210 acres, Fishmongers' Hall: James Higgens, agent for the Company;
stown bawn (125 x 125) and house; 15 houses and church; 6
freeholders, 28 lessees, aboe to produce 40 men with arms. The
English guilds held huge amounts of land: 3210 acres appears to be
the standard "lot".

So once you figure out where your ancestors were lving, you can
trace the district back to 1610! Also this book is useful for
Irish because it covers Irish Undertakers too. So I can see a
Betagh (Beatty) receive a land grant, which he held until his
descendents were ruined by Cromwell. In Burke's Landed Irish
Gentry I can see who the land was given to. But I don't know
where he went afterwards. Perhaps there are records in Connaught.

However the English didn't take to the conditions as well as the
hearty Scots. They tended to die quickly due to illness, so Londonderry
quickly became rather Scots. Fermanagh is the one place, says this
book, where the Scots did not thrive. It stayed rather English,
so that even today there are more Church of Ireland members than
Presbyterians. So you will not know where your ancestor originated
unless you can find him and trace him back. There were also many
English into early Belfast. Many of them were from Devon and
Cornwall -- because Stronbow and his Normans ruled the Walsh
Marches and so brought over CELTIC (for you Gaelophiles) Welsh,
Cornish, and Devonish (??) settlers.

I'm not sure what is different between the early colonists to
the Americas and the later. The earlier ones came from a small
area: the Bann valley, but then so did my ancestors who left in
the late 1700's.

Linda Merle

This thread:

• Fwd: Londonderry by <>