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Archiver > QUEBEC-RESEARCH > 2011-10 > 1319918133


From: Mona Andrée Rainville <>
Subject: Re: [Q-R] translation help needed please
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 15:55:33 -0400
References: <EF7D4F5A28EF4D90BE43E1ADF6D10CAA@SJ><4EAC4E3F.9040504@videotron.ca> <AC549543FE484C1C87CCA73759E158ED@SJ>
In-Reply-To: <AC549543FE484C1C87CCA73759E158ED@SJ>


Hi Shirley-Jean,

For an illustrated explanation of the 3rd to 4th degree of
consanguinity, I'll refer you to my website (shameless, I know O:-) )

http://pages.infinit.net/veeren/Parente.html (scroll to the bottom of
the page)

As Canon Law goes, a third degree means that the groom (usually the
first number stated is for the groom) is three generations removed from
the common ancestor he has with his bride. The 4th degree means that
the bride (in this case) is four generations removed from the common
ancestor she has with her husband.

So, whoever they had in common, was Amable's great-grand-father or
mother, and Marguerite's great-great-grand-father or mother.

The common ancestor is the starting point and each subsequent generation
increments one degree.

And yes, there is no reason to think that priest - or anyone else for
that matter - spelled native's names with any more precision than they
did european names. So a slight variation in the spelling is nothing to
shake a stick at. Also, it was not uncommon, in some Nations, to change
name altogether when life's circumstances waranted it.

Cheers,

Mona

PS: I don't have my glasses on, so please forgive the typos...


from S-J wrote:
> Yay!!! Mona --- between you and Renee we now have great translations for
> both marriage records.
> Two more questions though please.
> 1) Amable K__'s name is spelled almost exactly the same in both records even
> though two different Priests wrote it. However, the bride's surname is
> spelled slightly different - except for the last several letters.
> I have heard in the past that it is not uncommon for Native women to use
> slightly different surnames at different times in their lives.
> Sooo is it safe to assume the bride in both cases is the same person?
> 2) lastly - Mona how would you explain "without any other impediment other
> than a 3rd to 4th degree of consanguinity"
> I've never been able to get the meaning of the different degrees of
> consanguinity straight in my head.
> Many thanks to Mona and Renee - I know Fay will be very pleased.
> Shirley-Jean
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mona Andrée Rainville" <>
> To: "from S-J" <>
> Cc: <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 29, 2011 3:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Q-R] translation help needed please
>
>
> Hi Shirley-Jean,
>
> On the third of August 1844, after the publication of one ban of mariage
> during the solemn mass of this Mission without any other impediment
> other than a 3rd to 4th degree of consanguinity, and after having
> granted a dispensation for the publication of the other two bans as well
> as a dispensation for the above stated impediment, by virtue of the
> powers granted to Missionnaries to the Savages, we the undersigned
> priest have received, in speech and in person, the mutual consent to
> mariage of Amable Akwaiach, Algonquin, son of full age of Joseph
> Chkokwa, Algonquin of this Mission and of Marie Sitasikekwa, on the on
> part, and of Marguerite Okinwizokwe, widow of full age of Amable
> Kanahabbannoketc, Algonquin, also from this Mission, on the second part,
> and have maried them pursuant to the Laws and custums observed in the
> Holy Church, in the presence of Simon Chawanasikeke and of Ignace
> Chawanabe undersigned and of many others. The groom has declared being
> able to sign.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mona
>
>
> from S-J wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone
>> A few days ago Fay posted a query for the parents names in the 1844
>> marriage
>> of Amable Akwaiach and Marguerite Okinwizokwe. Amable's parents names
>> are
>> in the record but Marguerite was the widow of Amable Kaanabanoketc so
>> naturally her parents names aren't in the record.
>> I'm not always great at translating especially when consanguinity is
>> mentioned.
>> This record can be seen in LDS familysearch - top left corner
>>
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11100-168749-55?cc=1321742&wc=6437791
>>
>> I wanted to try and help Fay find Marguerite's parents names so I worked
>> backward in the Oka book and found what I believe is Marguerites first
>> marriage to Amable Kaanabanoketc in 1842.
>>
>> LDS familysearch record - bottom right hand corner and completed on
>> following sheet.
>>
>> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11100-171444-92?cc=1321742&wc=6437789
>>
>> I'm hoping someone more skilled than I can please translate these two
>> marriage records (they are clearly written) for Fay and confirm if the
>> bride
>> in both records is the same person and also explain the consanguinity
>> part.
>> Thank you.
>> Shirley-Jean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~For the list web page, goto:
>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~unclefred/main.htm
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>
>
>

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