QUEBEC-RESEARCH-L ArchivesArchiver > QUEBEC-RESEARCH > 2007-04 > 1176838038
From: Mona Rainville <>
Subject: Re: [Q-R] RE : GOUIN dit CHAMPAGNE
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:27:18 -0400
References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <4624E35A.email@example.com><FAD90587F7F53049B8DCD504E1A4C4CE486268@MAPIUDEM1.sim.umontreal.ca>
Bonjour Bertrand, and all,
What I have comes from the original parish records, not the greffe copy.
But looking at «Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures et annotations marginales
de la paroisse La Visitation de l'Ile Dupas (1704-1989), Société
généalogique de Lanaudière, publication no 31, I see they also show a
3rd degree dispensation only. Hum...Where DOES that 4th degree come from...?
As far as I am concerned, if there is only one Daniel GOUIN, then it
stands to reason there is only one set of parents.
But let's see how you will interpret the 1735 contract when you have a
Desjardins Bertrand wrote:
> >From the "Greffe" copy of the 1771 marriage record of Pierre Amable Gouin and Celeste de Rainville:
> "...ayant eu dispense de parenté au troisième degré en date du vingt neuf décembre dernier..."
> The PRDH version, which was read off the church copy, only mentions a 3rd degree dispensation. So where is the 3rd to the 4th degree?
> Remains to read the 1735 contract, and I am very confident we will close the case with the reality there was only one set of parents behind the "Jean Baptiste Bastien Sébastien Gouin and Marie Louise Élisabeth de Rainville".
> Bertrand Desjardins...
> ...who is always very vigilant when doing genealogy!
> Bertrand Desjardins Ph.D.
> Chercheur agrégé
> Département de démographie
> Université de Montréal
> C.P. 6128, succ. centre-ville
> Montréal (Qc)
> Canada H3C 3J7
> Tél.: 514-343-7613 Téléc.: 514-343-2309
> De: de la part de Mona Rainville
> Date: mar. 2007-04-17 11:10
> Objet : Re: [Q-R] GOUIN dit CHAMPAGNE
> Thank you Jackie,
> Yes, I know those Sorel records are missing, as I have worked with the
> original records. I also have seen the marriage contract dated November
> 25, 1703 (Parchemin: 17031125PA018527). That is why I am disputing
> Jan's claims that this couple was married on February 1st 1703, in
> Sorel. As far as I have seen, Sébastien GOUEN and Louuise de RAINVILLE
> were married on December 1st, 1703, in Montreal.
> The issue I was raising, and which seems to have got lost in the
> confusion, is that in the marriage contract of Daniel GOUIN with Marie
> Magdeleine LE VALOIS, dated April 26th, 1735, he is said to be
> represented by his mother described as "Marie Louise de Rainville, veuve
> de Bastien Gouen" (sic).
> Now, we all know that Marie Louise de RAINVILLE was long dead by then,
> and so was her sister Elisabeth. So, who is this person?
> Then, I have Daniel's parents described as Elisabeth de RAINVILLE and
> Jean-Baptiste GOUIN, in the parish record of Ile-Dupas. A simple mistake
> in identity? Perhaps. But it could also be the persons who raised him.
> We have pretty much excluded the possibility of there being two Daniel
> Finally, when Pierre Amable GOUIN, son of Daniel, married Anne Céleste
> de RAINVILLE, on January 28th, 1771, their consanguinity was said to be
> to the 3rd and 4th degree and required them to obtain a dispensation.
> Pierre Amable GOUIN, son of Daniel GOUIN, son of Sébastien GOUIN and
> Marie-Louise de RAINVILLE, daughter of Jean de RAINVILLE and Elisabeth
> de la GUERIPIERE. That's 3 degrees, right?
> But look at the bride's side:
> Anne Céleste de RAINVILLE, dau. of Pierre Ignace de RAINVILLE, son of
> René de RAINVILLE, son of Jean de RAINVILLE and Elisabeth de la
> GUERIPIÈRE. That is also 3 degrees.
> So where is the 4th degree?
> Mona...who believes that it is when things start to seem the most
> obvious that one should be the most vigilant...
>> Hi Libby,
>> All the data that I have supports what you say but I was particularly
>> impressed with your logic -- makes sense to me!
>> Jackie Hostage
>> See what's free at AOL.com
>> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503 <http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503> >.
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|Re: [Q-R] RE : GOUIN dit CHAMPAGNE by Mona Rainville <>|