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Archiver > QBC-MONTREAL > 2002-02 > 1014501139


From: "Malcolm Paterson" <>
Subject: Re: [MONTREAL] Surname " Landry".
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:52:27 -0500
References: <F161MfKQu1bCdUg07MJ0000bc23@hotmail.com> <039001c1bb81$a7fc7540$f8a0ad8e@ab.hsia.telus.net>


Dear Listers;

Mary Smith is no longer with us.

Gary, as always, you speak your mind without screaming at people. But let
that be the end of it.

Cheers!
Malcolm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boivin" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MONTREAL] Surname " Landry".


> No Christian Church would baptized a Native (male or female) without first
> giving them a Christian name. The whole of Canada and the US is proof of
> that. The areas that had French speaking missionaries have Natives with
> French names and the areas with English missionaries had English names.
But
> did you know that many of these Natives still practice the use of their
own
> names also.
>
> As for your contention that the men left their Native wives once French
> women came here, I have never seen any proof of this. I have over 4000
> French - Native marriages in my database.
>
> As for the French clergy forcing women to take on the man's name.... You
> better go back and check it out. The practice in Quebec then, as well as
> today is that the woman keeps her name. That is who she is. And the legal
> contracts will bear me out on this. The woman always signed her maiden
name.
>
> As for denying Native roots... That came later... When the English passed
> laws making Natives non-persons... They were not allowed to own land,
enter
> into a contract, to be in a white man's town after dark, be found with
> alcohol, and were not allowed to be employed off the reserves. Half-breeds
> (Metis) were included in this group. Many of these laws didn't disappear
> until a few years ago. I rallied with a group of Metis and Natives that
came
> from all over Canada in the early 1970's to Kenora, Ontario to protest the
> law that "Indians" weren't allowed in towns after 6 pm.
>
> Some of these laws still existed in 1983 when I took Contract Law in
> University --- "Indians" who live on a reserve come under the same legal
> status as an insane person... They cannot be bound to a contract... In
other
> words, if they want to buy a vehicle they cannot get financing... They
have
> to pay cash. Now it might be a good thing that they don't go into debt but
> try getting a job somewhere and not be able to get to work because you
don't
> have a reliable vehicle --- most reserves are not close to town.
>
> Want another one... Try driving onto a reserve with a 6 pack of beer...
> That's illegal --- that's discrimination. Now I'm not advocating the use
of
> alcohol nor am I saying that Natives should or shouldn't drink.. (I rarely
> do)... What I'm saying is that everyone in this country (Canada) should be
> equal.
>
> Just as some Jews in Poland, Hungary and Austria pretended they were
> Christians in order to not go to concentration camps, Many Natives said
they
> were French or Spanish in order to homestead or work on the railroads or
in
> the lumber camps. And I don't blame them... I would have done the same...
>
> You will also note that I began my sentence with "Historically the French
> don't discriminate for race"... And the majority of Francophones today
(that
> I know) still don't. Oka wasn't a war between the French and the
Natives...
> It was a disagreement between two political ideologies --- the same
> disagreement would have transpired if the local municipality was English.
> The Natives wanted their land that the town was using for a golf
course ---
> that's what everyone said was the problem. But we both know that there
were
> political agendas and social economic events that precipitated this event
> but the "raison d'ĂȘtre" of this list forbids political discussions.
>
> What I said about the English has been historically documented throughout
> history. Quebec and Manitoba are the only two places in the whole British
> Empire where the language and religious rights of the people were
guaranteed
> in law --- by way of the British North-America Act. The English didn't
even
> grant these rights to their own people --- the Magna Carta didn't give
Brits
> these rights.
>
> I was born and raised in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec. My father's
> ancestry is 9/16ths Native, 5/16ths French, and 1/8th Irish while my
> mother's is 1/2 German, 1/4 French, 3/8ths Native, and 1/8th Irish --- and
> this is only in 4 generations. When I was growing up, most people in
> Northern Ontario were bilingual (English and another language) and were
> mixed racially and ethnically. I personally am multi-lingual. I am
> conversant in English, French, Arabic, some Cantonese and Spanish, and 3
> Natives languages --- and I learned these in Northern Ontario except for
two
> of the Native languages which I learned in Western Canada and the
> Territories.
>
> My grandfather told me about not admitting "Indian" heritage in order to
run
> for political office because it was illegal in the 1930's. I have friends
in
> Northern Quebec that have said the same thing about their grand-parents.
> They admit that they have Native in their ancestry (and it's obvious from
> their appearance) but most don't know how.
>
> That's where I come in... I show them how.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mary smith" <>
> To: <>; <>
> Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [MONTREAL] Surname " Landry".
>
>
> >
> > What? Are you kidding! Many french canadians that had native roots
denied
> it
> > stongly! They did not want to be associated with native ancestry. It is
> > wrong to portray it as the english didn't like the natives but the
french
> > did. The Oka crisis was between french and native people not english.
The
> > only reason many frenchmen married native women when they first came
over
> is
> > because there were no white women to marry and many left their native
> wives
> > once french women came over!
> > Also, when they married it was the french clergy that insisted the
> husband's
> > name be taken to wipe out any trace of the native side of the marriage
and
> > the kids were baptized Catholic with french Catholic names even though
> they
> > were half native. The church would NOT baptize the child under ANY
Indian
> > name so the children all had french names. That is why it's so hard to
> trace
> > native ancestry!
> >
> >
> > >From: "Gary Boivin" <>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: [MONTREAL] Surname " Landry".
> > >Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 19:13:42 -0700
> > >
> >
> > >
> > Historically the French do not discriminate for race so they would not
> have
> > >done as the Anglophones and segregated them outside the community. The
> > >French and the Natives did intermarry but it wasn't considered a
> scandalous
> > >item like inter-racial marriages among the Anglophones. It was rarely
> > >recorded as a Native non-Native marriage. They did not keep a separate
> > >registry for non-French. Everyone was included in the same public
> records.
> > >
> > >Some of these marriages are hard to trace because many Native children
> were
> > >adopted by French families and took on the name of their adoptive
> > >parents...
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
>
>
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