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From: "JOHN FOLSOM" <>
Subject: [PLACE] Re: William Simmons Place
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:20:14 -0500
References: <>

I seem to recall replying to this message, Doug, but my files have been cleaned -- so I'll start over.

I show William Simmons Place, son of Samuel and Martha (Jones) Place, as being born 31 Dec 1765 (credit,yours). He would have turned 21 in 1786.

The children of Samuel and Martha were:
Deliverance 1759
Sarah 1761
Griffin 1763
Daniel 1764
Mary 1769
Phoebe 1777

I suspect Daniel may have been born in 1767. This would make for a child every other year.

I show the first daughter as Martha. Reasonable, given her mother's name.
I've estimated her y.o.b. as 1787.

I show the second daughter as Ann. I've estimated her y.o.b. as 1788, given her marriage date as 17 Feb 1816.

He is shown in the 1790 census in Charlotte, Chittenden Co., VT, with two daughters [01 00 03]. This seems reasonable for a man of 25 years.
(Thomas Place, who named a son William Simmons Place, was NOT a son of William's. He was almost certainly born in Clarendon, VT, in 1790, a son of Nathan Place.)

He is probably the William S. Place who was accepted as a freeman in Hinesburg in 1798 as were Samuel and Daniel.

* If he was born on December 31, 1765, as claimed by Don Douglas, he would have been but 10-1/2 on July 4, 1776, when the Revolutionary War started, and barely 18 when it ended in 1783. It seems strange that he would be counted in Charlotte, Vermont, in 1790, and be declared a freeman in Hinesburg in 1798, after service in the British Army, especially since his oldest brother, Griffin, had served in the war in the American army.

----- Original Message -----
From: Donald Douglas
To: John Folsom ; Hugh Campbell
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:02 PM
Subject: William Simmons Place

Hi John & Hugh,

I recently e-mailed you, but I don't believe it got through. However, if it did I have not received any response. Would like to hear from you concerning this subject. As mentioned, I have recently received a death certificate for Esther Winter, daughter of William Simmons Place, and wife of William Winter. It lists her date of death as 3/2/1885 (her cemetery headstone has 3/5/1886) and the name of her mother as Esther.

I believe that most of us researching the Place genealogy have used Barbara Stoddard's submission recorded in the LDS FamilySearch records. She lists William Simmons Place's 1st wife as Place, married about 1785 in Vermont. It was assumed this was Esther (last name unknown). His 2nd wife is listed as Marion Wait, married March 17, 1799 in Vergennes, Vermont. Based on this theory you can place the five known children with their respective mother by their birth dates and mother's marriage dates. Since Esther Place, daughter of William Simmons Place, was born in 1802 and Marion Wait's marriage was in 1799, this indicates that Esther was the daughter of Marion Wait. It is highly possible that Marion Wait and Esther could have been switched when the data was submitted to the LDS or Marion Wait could have been married to another William Simmons Place. Also, it is possible that Esther was his only wife.

I show as 1815.

I recently wrote a letter to Barbara Stoddard concerning her submission to the LDS. She e-mailed me back stating that some of the data submitted was her own theories that must be verified.

Looking forward to an ongoing dialogue with you and other Place researchers.

Don Douglas

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