OSTFRIESEN-L Archives

Archiver > OSTFRIESEN > 2003-07 > 1058684233


From: <>
Subject: [OSTF] Re: more discussion on "nervenleiden"
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 01:57:25 -0500 (CDT)
References: <F1BAA9089BBF5447A0A4411A0B029BFC8E29C6@iu-mssg-mbx02.exchange.iu.edu> <3F194644.27B36958@discover-net.net> <001a01c34e1e$8f05c010$9600000a@krijgerthu> <000f01c34e2e$a1d419c0$61b4aad5@ADI45> <3F196980.9341732F@discover-net.net> <1120.206.97.234.253.1058649182.squirrel@mail.ddc.net> <002f01c34e57$9ff41280$14e92b42@netins.net>
In-Reply-To: <002f01c34e57$9ff41280$14e92b42@netins.net>


Dear Hans-Georg Boyken and others,

I have been in the field of mental health since 1959 working in a variety
of mental health settings: state hospitals and in outpatient counseling in
rural counties, doing private therapy, and working in private psychiatric
hospitals. Tonight I am working all night in a drug study program for new
psychiatric drugs. I studied just about everything that I could find on
Freud's thinking and met people who had known Freud and others of his time
including Victor Frankl. As an aside, I once had the honor of sitting on
stage with Frankl. I am very interested in all matters pertaining to
mental health and psychiatry. I do have some very old psychiatric medical
texts and I will consult them and try to research this further.

I do know that in my early career when I interviewed patients who were
being admitted to the state hospital that many talked of "nervous
breakdowns." People with emotional problems "suffered from nerves." Asked
to explain what this meant, many were only able to say that their nerves
were bad. It seemed to cover a lot of things...hearing voices, being
paranoid, anxiety, depression, mania, aggression and probably covered all
the major mental health diagnoses of today. People then did not say "I
have bipolar disorder" or "I have schizoaffective disorder." In those
days, many people were not even told their diagsosis even if there was one
on the chart. While in Germany in the 1916 and surrounding time frame,
there may have been some tight little cluster of signs and or symptoms or
some modern day specific diaganois which was nervenleiden, I suspect that
for most people of that day, the term covered a variety of psychiatric
problems which people attributed to "nerves," however, I will try to
research this further. betty

> Dear Marilyn and Betty,
>
> Thank you very much for the updated explanations.
>
> It would be still interesting what exactly our ancestors and the medical
> physicians in the year of 1916 understood as "Nervenleiden" (according
> to the German-English dictionary - published by George Westermann of
> Braunschweig, Germany - it was in 1877 a disease of the nerves).
>
> Sincerely,
> Hans-Georg Boyken
> -----------------------------------------------
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 4:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [OSTF] Nervenleiden and questionable accuracy on old causes
> of death
>
>
>> Marily and others, I agree. Actually in the United States there is no
>> longer a diagnosis of neurotic for example. In the Diagnostic and
>> Statistical Manual IV-TR the latest guide for diagnosis for
>> psychiatrists and health care professionals in mental health, there is
>> no longer a diagnosis of neurosis. We have not used neurosis in this
>> country for a long time...and I suspect no one ever really died of
>> neurosis in this country...perhaps serious depression in which the
>> person no longer took in food or drink or complications of the
>> treatment (use of insulin therapy or cold packs or such in the old
>> days) Diagnois at time of death has always and continues to lack
>> precision unless there is an autopy or a clear cut cause as you
>> mention like run away horse which happened to one of my ancesotrs or
>> in the case of another ancestor: falling into a natural gas well.
>> Betty
>>
>> > On the matter of "causes of death"--I read recently that in modern
>> times, when a group of autopsy results were compared with death
>> certificates for the same individuals, there were often
>> > discrepancies--the persons died of something other than what was
>> listed on their death certificates. The author further pointed out
>> that when someone is very old and very feeble, many things conspire
>> to cause death, although there is only one short line available on
>> the death certificate. Unless it's a situation like my
>> gr-grandfather, who was killed by runaway horses while farming,
>> recording a cause of death is often a very subjective matter.
>> >
>> > Marilyn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ==== OSTFRIESEN Mailing List ====
>> > for more information, check out the companion web pages at
>> > http://www.summitsoftware.com/Ostfriesen
>> > for questions about the list, contact
>> > Amy at
>> >
>> > ==============================
>> > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
>> records, go to:
>> > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==== OSTFRIESEN Mailing List ====
>> for more information, check out the companion web pages at
>> http://www.summitsoftware.com/Ostfriesen
>> for questions about the list, contact
>> Amy at
>>
>> ==============================
>> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
>> records,
> go to:
>> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237
>>
>
>
> ==== OSTFRIESEN Mailing List ====
> for more information, check out the companion web pages at
> http://www.summitsoftware.com/Ostfriesen
> for questions about the list, contact
> Amy at
>
> ==============================
> To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy
> records, go to:
> http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237




This thread: