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Subject: [Ordway] Bengeworth: differences between Dean Crawford Smith's and Don Hansen's research results
Date: 15 Nov 2002 01:49:47 -0700


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Surnames: Ordway
Classification: Query

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http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/xY4.2ACIB/188

Message Board Post:

Differences between Dean Crawford Smith's and Don Hansen's research results

Don Hansen
14 Nov 2002

I welcome any comments on these differences that may help to resolve them. Dean Crawford Smith is dead, and Melinde Sanborn (who worked on the book) has told me that a number of researchers were involved in its preparation. She says that "we tried very hard not to assume anything when there was a choice to be made - but most of the time it was inevitable". I would like to make readers aware of the other possibilities and to draw their own conclusions if they feel justified in so doing.

Page numbers refer to "The Ancestry of Samuel Blanchard Ordway 1844-1916" by Dean Crawford Smith.

All dates between 1 Jan and 24 Mar inclusive are shown with the "old style" year followed by the "new style" year. Dates mentioned by Smith have been assumed to show "new style" years in his book unless he stated otherwise, and they have accordingly been rewritten to conform to the aforementioned standard.


Difference 1:
p.58i. Margaret, daughter of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was born 5 Mar 1547/48.
Hansen:
The event of that date was a baptism, not a birth.
The parents' names were not stated in the baptism entry, so it is not clear who they were. John Ordway of Wickhamford also had a daughter Margaret (mentioned in his will of 1555) and as John appeared to have had other children baptised in Bengeworth, the Margaret who was baptised 5 Mar 1547/48 could have been John's daughter.
Also, another Margaret Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 14 Aug 1541, with no parents stated, although she could be one of the two Margaret Ordways who were buried in Bengeworth 30 Oct 1541 and 8 Apr 1542.

Difference 2:
p.58i. Margaret, daughter of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She married Philip Cekerson.
Hansen:
As other Margaret Ordways existed, it is not certain which one married Philip but a search for Cekerson wills may resolve the question.

Difference 3:
p.58ii. Ann/Agnes, daughter of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was baptised 13 Feb 1548/49.
Hansen:
The parents' names were not stated in the baptism entry, so it is not clear who they were. Another Agnes Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 12 Mar 1544, with no parents stated. Either Agnes could be Robert and Margaret's daughter.

Difference 4:
p.58iii. Robert, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He was baptised 23 May 1550.
Hansen:
The date of that baptism was 28, not 23, May 1550.
Another Robert Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 11 Aug 1540, with no parents stated. Either Robert could be Robert and Margaret's son. One was probably the son of William Ordway of Bengeworth, as he had a son Robert who was buried in Bengeworth 4 Sep 1551.

Difference 5:
p.58iii. Robert, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He died after 1591.
Hansen:
Smith's statement that Robert died after 1591 is presumably based on his conclusion that Robert was the father of Edward Ordway who was baptised 22 Oct 1591 (with no parents stated in the baptism entry). He could have died any time after the conception of his son Edward who was baptised 6 Jan 1588/89. The Edward Ordway who was baptised 22 Oct 1591 was probably not his son, but the son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway (mentioned in Smith, p.71). No burial was recorded in Bengeworth in 1589-91 of the Edward Ordway who was baptised 6 Jan 1588/89, as would have been expected if Robert Ordway was the father of both Edwards.

Difference 6:
p.58iii. Robert, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
His wife Marian was buried 5 Feb 1615/16.
Hansen:
She was buried 5 Feb 1616/17.

Difference 7:
p.581) "perhaps Mary", daughter of Robert and Marian Ordway
Smith:
She was "perhaps" the daughter of Robert and Marian Ordway.
Hansen:
There is no evidence for this attribution. Although Mary's parents are not stated in her baptism entry of 9 Feb 1583/84, she is more likely to be the daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway, mentioned in Thomas's will of 1605 and referred to by Smith on p.71 as "born circa 1584/5".

Difference 8:
p.584) Edward, son of Robert and Marian Ordway
Smith:
He was baptised 5 Jan 1588/89.
Hansen:
He was baptised 6 Jan 1588/89.

Difference 9:
p.58iv. Susan, daughter of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was born "say 1555".
Hansen:
Susan Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 4 Feb 1552/53, with no parents stated. As no evidence exists for any other Ordway parents having a daughter Susan, this baptism is most likely that of Robert and Margaret's daughter Susan, mentioned in Robert's will of 1580.

Difference 10:
p.58v. Thomas, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He was born "say 1550s".
Hansen:
Three Thomas Ordways were baptised in Bengeworth: 24 Mar 1537/38, 23 Oct 1545 and 18 Sep 1555, with no parents stated in any of the entries. One was probably the son of William Ordway of Bengeworth, as he had a son Thomas who was buried in Bengeworth 3 Apr 1562 (and a son Thomas living 12 Jul 1583, mentioned in the latter's brother John Ordway's will of that date). It is likely that one of the 3 baptisms is that of Robert and Margaret Ordway's son Thomas, but there is not enough evidence to indicate which. If we assume that he married in his mid-20s, then the 1555 baptism is the most likely.

Difference 11:
p.58vi. Elizabeth, daughter of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was born circa 1559.
Hansen:
Three Elizabeth Ordways were baptised in Bengeworth: 5 May 1539, 19 Aug 1542 and 19 Dec 1544, with no parents stated in any of the entries, although one could be the Elizabeth Ordway who was buried in Bengeworth 26 Feb 1542/43. Robert and Margaret's daughter could have been any one of these three.

Difference 12:
p.59Thomas, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He died probably between 28 Feb and 4 Mar 1603/04.
Hansen:
His will was dated 28 Feb 1604/05 and he was buried 11 Mar 1604/05. His will was proved 14 Mar 1604/05.

Difference 13:
p.59Thomas, son of Robert and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
His wife Margaret was buried 11 Dec 1616.
Hansen:
She was buried 15 Dec 1616.

Difference 14:
p.64i. Ann, daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was baptised 16 Oct 1581.
Hansen:
She was baptised 10 Oct 1581.

Difference 15:
p.64i. Ann, daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She died after 1606.
Hansen:
She died after 28 Feb 1604/05, when she was mentioned in her father's will. Smith's statement is presumably based on the conclusion that it was she that married Giles Washburne in 1606, but see Difference 16 for comment on this conclusion.

Difference 16:
p.64i. Ann, daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She married Giles Washburne in 1606.
Hansen:
Arthur Ordway also had a daughter Ann, who was baptised in Bengeworth 30 Jun 1587. No burial exists for her in Bengeworth so it could have been either of these two Ann Ordways who married Giles Washburne. The correct identification could be made by further research in other documents, which indeed Smith might already have done.

Difference 17:
p.64ii. Thomas, son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He died between 11 Sep 1658 and 10 March 1659/60, the dates of writing and proving his will.
Hansen:
He died between 11 Sep 1658 and 12 March 1660/61, the dates of writing and proving his will.

Difference 18:
p.661) Jonathan, son of Thomas Ordway
Smith:
No record of his baptism is shown.
Hansen:
He was baptised in Bengeworth 6 Mar 1607/08, but the entry is very faded and only just legible in the original register.
As an aside, this Jonathan lived in Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire, in the 1640s-1660s, then in Kineton, Warwickshire, until his death in 1680. He was a shoemaker and an excommunicated Anabaptist. His small gravestone still exists in Kineton churchyard and was just legible in the early 1980s, but is now completely overgrown with ivy. He was the 9th-great-grandfather of Don Hansen.

Difference 19:
p.662) unnamed daughter of Thomas Ordway
Smith:
She was buried 8 Apr 1613.
Hansen:
She was buried 1 Apr 1613.

Difference 20:
p.663) Abner, son of Thomas Ordway
Smith:
He was baptised 19 Jan 1613/14.
Hansen:
He was baptised 15 Jan 1614/15.

Difference 21:
p.664) Philip, son of Thomas Ordway
Smith:
No record of his baptism is shown.
Hansen:
He was baptised in Bengeworth 5 Oct 1617.

Difference 22:
p.71iii. Mary, daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
She was born circa 1584/5.
Hansen:
Mary Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 9 Feb 1583/84. Although her parents were not stated in the baptism entry, she is most likely the daughter of Thomas and Margaret Ordway, mentioned in Thomas's will of 1605.

Difference 23:
p.71v. John, son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He was buried in Evesham All Saints 27 May 1625.
Hansen:
Another John Ordway was buried in Bengeworth 15 Mar 1606/07, who could have been Thomas and Margaret Ordway's son.

Difference 24:
p.71vi. Richard, son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He perhaps married firstly Elizabeth.
Hansen:
A Richard Ordway married Mary Nicholos in Bengeworth 8 Feb 1619/20 (bishop's transcripts), who could have been Thomas and Margaret Ordway's son.

Difference 25:
p.71vii. Edward, son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway
Smith:
He was born "say" 1591.
Hansen:
Smith has implied a missing baptism for Edward Ordway, son of Thomas and Margaret (nee Dacle) Ordway. I would argue that there is no need to propose such a scenario as the evidence supports a recorded baptism.
An Edward Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 6 Jan 1589, the son of Robert Ordway (also noted by Smith, p.58).
Another Edward Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 22 Oct 1591, with no parents stated in the entry.
Thomas and Margaret (nee Dacle) Ordway had a son named Edward, mentioned in Thomas's will of 1605 (as noted by Smith), so it is most likely that the Edward Ordway who was baptised 22 Oct 1591 was their son.
One might be tempted to argue that, as Edward Phelps was a godfather to the Edward Ordway who was baptised 22 Oct 1591, a case can be made for this Edward Ordway being a second Edward born to Robert Ordway and Marian (nee Phelps). I would counter that with 2 points:
1. If Edward Ordway (baptised 22 Oct 1591) was indeed Robert and Marian Ordway's son, one would expect to find a previous burial entry for their first Edward (baptised 6 Jan 1589). None exists.
2. The baptism register shows that the Phelps, Ordway and Dacle families acted as godparents for each other's children for a long time before the marriage of Robert Ordway and Marian Phelps. This pre-existing social, marital and/or consanguinial connection between the families weakens the godparent argument somewhat.

Difference 26:
p.73Edward Ordway, father of James who went to America
Smith:
He was the son of Thomas and Margaret Ordway, born "say" 1591.
Hansen:
As shown under Difference 25, there were 2 Edward Ordways baptised in Bengeworth:
1. Edward Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 6 Jan 1589, the son of Robert Ordway (also noted by Smith, p.58).
2. Edward Ordway was baptised in Bengeworth 22 Oct 1591, without his parents being stated in the register, but his parents were most likely Thomas and Margaret (nee Dacle).
Either of these 2 Edward Ordways could have been the father of James Ordway who went to America, unless some evidence (not mentioned in Smith) exists to indicate one rather than the other.
Both Edwards were grandsons of Robert and Margaret Ordway of Bengeworth, so James Ordway who went to America was the great-grandson of this couple, regardless of which Edward was his father, assuming the James Ordway baptised in Bengeworth is indeed the same person as the American James Ordway.


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