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From: "Lorine McGinnis Schulze" <>
Subject: [ONT] Re: JOESPH MONTENEY was born Abt. 1760.
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 11:03:48 -0500
References: <3DEB1A5C.18380.657838@localhost>
In-Reply-To: <FLEFKFIJAANKHBIKCAPCKEBLCKAA.yankeedd@twmi.rr.com>


Hello Joyce,

Is your Catherine from the Woertman family descending from
Dirck Janse Woertman of Brooklyn NY? He came to NY from
Amsterdam in 1647. He and his wife Marretien Teunis became
members of the Brooklyn Dutch Church 10 April. 1661.

Dirck's baptism record has been found - in the Amsterdam
(Netherlands) Lutheran church. Dirck's family was almost
certainly of German origin, not French. There was a French
Walloon church in Amsterdam which was used extensively by
French Huguenots living in the Netherlands. Dirck's parents did
not use this church, preferring the Lutheran church instead.


See "The Family of Dirck Janzen Woertman of Brooklyn Ferry",
by Barbara Barth published in series starting with the January
2001 issue of the NYGBR (New York Genealogical & Biographical
Record)

At a quick glance in the issues I have on hand, I don't see
your Catherine but I only took a quick look and I don't have
all the issues handy.

If you have not seen this well documented article by Barbara,
you will want to. Ms. Barth corrects errors in previously
published genealogies of the family.

The Dutch and French and other nationalities and religions in
New Netherland (present day New York state) intermarried
frequently. I know the Sicard family used the French Church of
NY City but I don't see your Daniel in the registers.

Lorine

On 2 Dec 2002 at 9:54, YankeeDD wrote:

> Catherine Woertman is in my family tree. She was born in 1677
> and was the wife of Daniel Secord and the mother of Peter
> Secord. Because Daniel was a French Huguenot in NY, I tend to
> believe Catherine was a Dutch Huguenot.
>
> Joyce Stevens
> Livonia, Michigan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lorine McGinnis Schulze [mailto:]
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:31 AM
> To:
> Subject: [ONT] Re: JOESPH MONTENEY was born Abt. 1760.
>
> Hello Carol,
>
> Welcome! Your family ties into mine back in the Mohawk Valley of
> New York.
>
> I don't have full details on your line but I can give you some
> information, and point you to places where you can do more
> research.
>
> On 1 Dec 2002 at 21:16, The Gabriel's in B.C. wrote:
>
>
> > JOESPH MONTENEY was born Abt. 1760. He married MARGARET FRANK
> > August 15, 1785 in Schenectady, New York, USA.
>
> You might want their exact record of marriage. They were
> married in the Reformed Dutch Church of Schenectady on the 15
> August (with banns on the 6 of that month) as
>
> Joseph Montony from Warrensburg, and Margariet Frank also from
> Warrensburg.
>
> It may be of interest to you that Andries Frank (this would
> render in English as Andrew Frank) married Eva Woortman in this
> same church on 21 June 1785 (with banns on 11 June) I suspect
> that Andrew/Andries is a sibling to your Margaret.
>
> >
> > Children of JOESPH M ONTENEY and MARGARET FRANK are:
>
>
> > i. JOHN M OUNTANEY, b. 1785, USA.
> > ii. JOESPH M ONTNEY, b. April 10, 1788, Warrenbush, Montgomery
> > City, New
> > York, USA; d. June 15, 1883, Memphis, Michigan, USA.
>
>
> Here is Joseph's baptism record taken from The Dempster
> Records, 1778-1803. These records are from Florida, Montogomery
> Co. NY
>
> Father: Joseph Mortany
> Mother: Margt Frank
> Child: Joseph
> Baptismal Date: 14 Feb 1790
> Place: Warrensh
>
> Look at how Joseph's surname is mis-rendered as MoRtany. This
> means you have to be very very creative with your search, and
> use different spellings and variations to find your people.
> Since you are dealing with German, Dutch and possibly French
> names, make sure you also look for the ethnic version of the
> anglized name. For eg Margaret can be Margrietje (Dutch),
> Grietje (short form in Dutch), Margareta (German) and on and on
> it goes....
>
> > iii.ALBERT M OUNTNEY, b. 1791, USA; d. December 11, 1865,
> > Tyendinaga
> > Township, Hastings City, Ontario, Canada.
> > iv.MARY M ONTANA MOUNTANEY, b. March 01, 1795; d. December 21,
> > 1885,
> > Westmoreland, Oneida City, New York, USA. 5.
>
> Here is Mary's baptism record, from the same place as Joseph
> above:
>
> Father: Joseph Monteny
> Mother: Margt Frank
> Child: Mary
> Baptismal Date: 08 Mar 1795
> Place: Warrensh
>
> There are other FRANK individuals baptising children in
> "Warrensh" the same time period as Margaret and her husband. A
> thorough search may reveal a family relationship, such as
> siblings to your Margaret. They are Albert Frank and Margaret
> Noortman [sic] and Andrew Frank and Eva Noortman [sic]. We know
> the surname of Eva from her marriage record I gave above. It is
> Woortman, and I suspect that Margaret "Noortman" is also a
> Woortman.
>
> If you can prove some sibling relationships, come up with
> accurate family groups, check the naming patterns. These German
> & Dutch families in NY followed a naming pattern that makes our
> lives as researchers very nice! Did each sibling name a son or
> daughter with a consistent name, one that might be their own
> father or mother's?
>
> Here is a list of some available Montgomery Co. records on
> microfilm
>
> http://www.genealogynut.com/search/montgomery.htm
>
> The wonderful Herkimer/Montgomery Co. site at
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/
>
> The town of Florida, Montgomery Co. NY (Genealogy resources)
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~nyherkim/florida.html
>
> You should check my site's New York section for various church,
> land, census and military records online.
>
> http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/ is the index to all my NY
> records.
>
> http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/census/
> Census Records - scroll down to Montgomery Co. and don't
> overlook 1790 census for Mohawk town!
>
> I found 4 Montenay families, spelled MONTANIE, including your
> Joseph, AND the Frank males I thought might be your Margaret
> Frank's siblings
>
> http://olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/church/
> Church records
>
> You should consult "Compendium of Early Mohawk Valley
> Families" by Maryly B Penrose. It is chock full of FRANK
> baptisms, wills etc.
>
> Lorine
>
> Lorine McGinnis Schulze
> --
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>
> or
>
>
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Lorine McGinnis Schulze
--
* The Olive Tree Genealogy
http://olivetreegenealogy.com/
* Past Voices:Letters Home
http://pastvoices.com/
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http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/usa_genealogy/
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