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From: "David Zincavage" <>
Subject: Re: [LITHUANIA] Lithuanian political affiliation in the U.S.
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 12:29:22 -0500
References: <d03.47dfddfa.364b4d63@aol.com><BDD08BC832D2451F95E2C0635D8DC341@davidpxhs8sl3v><69E3B5E7834E499F8BD6E8BE2497F367@armandaleg>


I expect they probably did, but, of course, most groups did practice
favoritism with respect to their own members. Earlier, the Welsh, English,
and Germans discriminated against the Irish.

My sense is that the Lithuanians, who were in many cases (see "nice
families," below) straight-laced, morally opinionated, and emotionally
restrained, disapproved of Irish drinking and Irish rowdiness,
demonstrativeness, and general loose living. I've heard stories, too, of
attempted shake-downs of Lithuanian businesses by the Mollies, who still ran
protection rackets long after the hangings of the 1870s.

In Shenandoah, there was a theoretical red-line on Bower Street, dividing
the East Side one-time-predominantly-Lithuanian First Ward from the rest of
the town, which the Irish were supposedly forbidden to cross. In my day,
all this was pretty old time stuff. Lithuanians and Irish lived all over
town, and Irishmen travelled normally east of Bower Street every day. But,
one day during high school, I found myself standing in the middle of Bower
Street with a bunch of Lithuanian ruffians from the East Side of town,
ordering an Irish gang to turn back or else. I thought it was all real
craziness at the time. But there everybody was, with many individuals
fingering switchblade knives and other weapons. I, btw, lived way over on
the West Side of town, and could care less about who travelled east of Bower
Street, but tradition and ethnic solidarity obliged. The Irish did retreat
(making lots of empty threats).

The Lithuanians I knew generally tended to dislike the Irish and the Poles.
This is pretty funny, since a large portion of Shenandoah's "Poles" were
really people descended from once Polish-speaking ethnic Lithuanians from
Central Lithuania, who had stayed with St. Casimir's after the linguistic
nationalist split produced the new St. George Lithuanian parish. Old St.
Casimir's Cemetery is full of Lihuanian names. The Lithuanians were
typically on good terms with the Pennsylvania Germans (who are very similar
in temperament and outlook), and got along (in a condescending way) with the
Italians. Rather than thinking of Italians as tough, we Lithuanians used to
look on them as weak little guys, who (like the Jews) were natural
noncombatants needing protecting from bullies.

You know, I think to speak sensibly, one would have to distinguish the
viewpoint of (what a neighbor of mine back homes calls) "nice (Lithuanian)
families" from the less nice. I think many of the latter had no problem
with taking $3 to vote democrat from one of the Irish poll watchers at all.

David Zincavage



----- Original Message -----
From: "David Samuels" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [LITHUANIA] Lithuanian political affiliation in the U.S.


> Labas David,
> I remember as a child that one of my uncles did not speak highly of the
> Irish in the coal mining area of Scranton, PA. Am I correct to interpret
> that the Irish (in political power) discriminated against anyone who
> wasn't
> Irish? And I had an aunt who said something that she was called a "Hun"
> by
> the kids on the next street.
> Sveikata,
> Dave Samuels
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Zincavage" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [LITHUANIA] Lithuanian political affiliation in the U.S.
>
>
>> I'm not sure that one could make a really meaningful rule. Most working
>> class people tended to be democrat, but the Lithuanians upon arrival
>> learned
>> the Irish were democrats, and consequently a lot of Lithuanians voted
>> Republican.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 4:04 PM
>> Subject: [LITHUANIA] Lithuanian political affiliation in the U.S.
>>
>>
>>> What was the political affiliation of most Lithuanian Americans,
>>> especially
>>> in the anthracite coal region?
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
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