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Archiver > IRISH-DNA > 2008-04 > 1207580950

Subject: [IRISH-DNA] Cooper-YDNA
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 11:09:10 EDT

In response to:
"Our family surname is Cooper and we've traced it back to Cambridge, New
York to 1821.
We had assumed that since Cooper is typically English or Scottish name that
the family came from Britain. There is now some suggestion that our Coopers
may have actually emigrated from Ireland...they may have been Ulster Scots."
Y-DNA doesn't follow the "surnames" ... just the strict genetic inheritance
I too have found that my "English Paternal Fox" roots go back to Ireland and
are related to the McGuire clan. I'm very happy to have found that linkage
and my association to a marvelous historical clan.
My historical English Fox line can be traced to abt. 1750 in Chorley,
Lancashire. My Fox surname is a later adoption by the Irish “pre-Foxes” or a
non-Paternal event.
Probably the odds are that a family or male family member changed their/his
Irish surname to a more "acceptable" English one after a generation or so of
living in England.
As we know ... the Irish were not welcomed immigrants in England nor in
America until in America they began to have economic and political power in the
early 1900’s.
A large % of non English/Irish European migrants to the US quickly changed
their name to more easily fit into American culture …and without overt bias
forcing them to do so. And, forget about the myth of Ellis Island, NY officials
changing family names … never happened as they only worked from Ship
My wife’s father … went from Podorolski to Cooper, my son-in-law family,
Ezschkin to Epstein (just a “picked’ name”); almost all of the families on my
wife’s side did it.
My Timlin grandmother, on my maternal Irish side, was born in Haslington,
Lancashire in 1875. The family migrated to Fall River, MA a few years later.
She remembered the taunting of her Irish heritage as a child both in England
and in Fall River.
So, that’s why I think the odds for many similar cases …perhaps your
Coopers, certainly my Foxes, that name change was the result of a personal
Getting better information
I had to go to 67 markers to clearly show the McGuire/NW Irish linkage.
And that required matches of 64/67 to be sure of the connection.
If you are serious about family history take the more defining 67 marker
Family Matches
I have had no historical family matches ... just a high probability of being
related to the 2 closest McGuires with a 50% probability within 4
generations and 90% within about 9 generations.
It may take some years or some decades … but I think many of us will find
historical genetic matches and living family branches.
We have just scratched the surface of the deep genetic pool.
Cooper surname in Scottish records
I ran a search of the Cooper Surname in the Scottish Record Data base
While there a couple of thousand in each census … it is not a very common
Scottish name.
Search Count Count
Census 1841 2154
Census 1851 2446
Census 1861 2704
Census 1871 3038
Census 1881 3562
Census 1891 4005
Census 1901 4322
Old Parish Records Births & Christenings 1553 - 1854 3111
Old Parish Records Banns & Marriages 1553 - 1854 2116
Statutory Register Births 1855 - 2006 16592
Statutory Register Marriages 1855 - 1932 4790
Statutory Register Deaths 1855 - 2006 14127
Good luck to you, and all of us, embarked on this marvelous new genetic
More wonders to follow.
But, you have to do the necessary DNA testing to get on board.
Regards Gary
Princeton Junction, NJ

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