GER-VOLGA-L Archives

Archiver > GER-VOLGA > 2008-09 > 1220877368


From: "Rod Tondevold" <>
Subject: Re: [GV] GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 356
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 05:36:08 -0700
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1220857203.22231.ger-volga@rootsweb.com>


Where can one obtain the 1767 Lists of Original Settlers and 1766 Kuhlberg
lists?

Thanks,

Rod Tondevold ( Frank)




-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
On Behalf Of
Sent: September 8, 2008 12:00 AM
To:
Subject: GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 356




Today's Topics:

1. Not all Volga GRs necessarily emigrated from Germany
(Vera Beljakova)
2. Pickelhaupt - German name origins map (Vera Beljakova)
3. Re: GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 353 (Cindy Mitchell)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:05:54 +0200
From: "Vera Beljakova" <>
Subject: [GV] Not all Volga GRs necessarily emigrated from Germany
To: "" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="utf-8"

Hi...some of you are really anguished because you cannot trace your
surnames to the early immigrant list of Hesse archive, KUhlber list,
early census...

But not all GRs in Volga villages necessarily migrated en masse from
German territories straight to the Volga villages.

There was a small but stead stream of Germans from the Baltics for example,
mainly to serve as Pastors/priests/etc/
or teachers, some to marry, and some from other parts of Russia,
then there were also the POW from the Napoleonic Wars who remained
behind and settled in GR villages through intermarriage.

Some came later...straggelers...some came from Denmark and Sweden,
Austria and Switzerland..so one needs to throw the net wider.

Vera Beljakova-Miller


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:53:52 +0200
From: "Vera Beljakova" <>
Subject: [GV] Pickelhaupt - German name origins map
To: "" <>
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset="utf-8"

Hi - Just thought in case anyone else is interested,
you an find thsie German maps wchich show were
certain surnames predominate....
compiled?from contemporary German telephone directories.

eg this is the map for the Pickelhaupt surname.

cheers,
Vera Beljakova-Miller
.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 15:59:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Cindy Mitchell <>
Subject: Re: [GV] GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 353
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello Brent,

What can you tell me about the Reifschneider's from Kukkus? They
are my relatives.

Thank you
Cindy


wrote:


Today's Topics:

1. Kukkus 1834 Census Now Available (Brent Mai)
2. Re: GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 352 (David Schmidt)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 22:58:09 -0700
From: "Brent Mai"
Subject: [GV] Kukkus 1834 Census Now Available
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Contact me for further information.

..............Brent............

Brent Mai, University Librarian

Director, Center for Volga German Studies

http://cvgs.cu-portland.edu

Concordia University

Portland, Oregon



1834 Kukkus Surnames



B?tz Baum Baumg?rtner Becker Beier Bell Branauer Busik Debus Dinges
Dittenberg Eirich Elberg Engelmann Falsinger Fazius Filbert Friehling Fuchs
Gerlach G?tz Gruhl Habermann Heinrich Heitzenr?der Hergenr?der Herstein
Herzog Isheim Johannes Kehling Kisselmann Klamm Klaus Kreiter Kromm Kuhn
Kukkus Masser Neidhardt Olberg Otto Pfeil Reitz Riefschneider Ringel
Rosental Ross Schaab Sch?fer Schengel Schneider Schweitzer Seip Wagner Weber
Weigand Weil Wick



Movement to/from the following colonies is recorded:



Anton

Beideck

Moor

Reinwald

Warenburg




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 23:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Schmidt
Subject: Re: [GV] GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 352
To:
Message-ID: <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Alejandro Muller wrote:

> Listers:
>
> I'm searching my ancestors that come from
> "Niedersachsen", according to family records...but
> I think I've not seen on any record any person who were
> from "Niedersachsen" on volga german documents.
> So, should I look up for "Sachsen" only? on
> 1770's was the same to say a person was from
> Niedersachsen or from Sachsen?
> I've noticed many lutheran Volga Germans, like my
> ancestors, went out mostly from Hesse...towns like:
> Isenburg, Darmstadt, etc.
> Which towns in Sachsen are the most seen or appear most as
> place of origins on germans who went to Russia?
> Any help or guidance would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks to all of you.
>
> Alejandro M?ller from Entre Rios, Argentina.
> http://muellerausweizenfeld.blogspot.com

My comments:
I generally agree with the response that Dick Kraus gave you. But the
situation may be more complicated.

First of all, I would say that it is extremely unusual for a Volga German
family to list in their family records an accurate place of origin in
Germany. Given the many generations involved, most Volga German families
probably had no idea as to where their family originally came from in
Germany. In the 20+ years that I have been researching, I have never seen an
individual family record (e.g., bible, letter, diary, etc.) that gave a
family's place of origin in Germany. Therefore, you should not rely 100% on
the Niedersachsen place of origin and should treat it as a rumor or
possibility. If I were you, I would focus instead on more accurate, timely
records such as the 1767 Lists of Original Settlers and the 1766 Kuhlberg
lists. If you have not obtained those documents for the family you are
researching, you should do so right away rather than spend time chasing
after an area (Niedersachsen) that is difficult to pin down and that may
actually have no
connection with your family.

Another point is that Sachsen (Saxony) could refer to any one of several
different areas in Germany. Dick already mentioned one major
area--Kursachsen (Electorate of Saxony, area around Halle, Wittenberg &
Magdeburg). But there were other Saxon areas--Koenigreich Sachsen (Kingdom
of Saxony, area around Leipzig, Zwickau, Chemnitz, Dresden, Bautzen &
Goerlitz). And there also were the 5 Saxon duchies--Duchies of
Sachsen-Gotha, Sachsen-Weimar, Sachsen-Coburg, Sachsen-Meiningen &
Sachsen-Altenburg. Niedersachsen (Lower Saxony), which covered a large area
to the northwest of the Electorate of Saxony, included Oldenburg,
Osnabrueck, Lueneburg, Hanover, Brunswick & Goettingen.
For general reference see:
http://www.tr62.de/maps/s2.html
http://www.tr62.de/maps/s2d.html

Considering the large area and many towns covered by "Saxony" or even "Lower
Saxony," it is inefficient to research an entire area. Yes, Volga German
colonists did originate from various towns in Kursachsen, Koenigreich
Sachsen, and Niedersachsen. But even if you focus on all those towns, they
may have no connection with the family you are researching. That's yet
another reason why you should focus on the 1767 Lists of Original Settlers
and 1766 Kuhlberg lists as mentioned above.

I forget whether you are researching a common name like Mueller or a more
unusual name. If the latter, you may be able to narrow your search by using
the online LDS records (www.familysearch.org) and searching for that name
among the German baptism, marriage, and death records (click on "Advanced
Search" under the "Search Records" tab, then click on "International
Genealogical Index" at the left). That could give you an idea whether the
name comes from just a few towns within Lower Saxony and the other Saxon
areas.

David F. Schmidt
Walnut Creek, CA, USA







------------------------------

To contact the GER-VOLGA list administrator, send an email to
.

To post a message to the GER-VOLGA mailing list, send an email to
.

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.


End of GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 353
*****************************************




------------------------------

To contact the GER-VOLGA list administrator, send an email to
.

To post a message to the GER-VOLGA mailing list, send an email to
.

__________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to

with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body
of the
email with no additional text.


End of GER-VOLGA Digest, Vol 3, Issue 356
*****************************************



This thread: