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From:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Irish/ Scots clans, Dalriada, R1b etc
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:13:48 EDT


In a message dated 8/16/2006 8:45:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

And the Magennis origin from the two Aenguses. So why would an Erainn be I
haplogroup. OK only one sample but maybe the so called Pict ydna is just a
Erainn who happened to be I from the caveman times.


The Maguinness sept descend from a different Aengus as you can see from this
pedigree.

GENELACH MHEG AENGHUSU INDSO
1829. Art m an Fhir dhorcha m Domhnaill oig m Domnail moir m Aedha m Airt m
Aedha m Airt na madhmand m Muircertaigh m mordhuasaigh m Riaganaigh m
Echmilidh airdechtaigh m Ruaidri rigbreathaigh m Giolla colaim m Duib innsi m Aehda
rath mair m Flaithbertaigh m Echmilidh m Aenghusa m Echmhilidh m Aedha m
Aenghusa (o raiter an slondadh) m Aidite m Laighnigh m Blaithmaic m Domhnaill m
Concobair m Bresail beldeirg m Ferghusa m Aedhain m Mongain m Sarain m maine m
Fothaidh m Conaill m Eachach m Connla m Caelbhadh m Cruinn badrai m Echach
cobha (o ta Uibh Echach) m Luigdech m Rossa m Imchadha m Feidlimthe m Cais m
Fiacha araidhe (o raiter dal nAraidhe) m Oengusa goibhnend m Ferghusae
gailfini m Tiopratti tirigh m Breasail mic Feirb m Mail mic Rochraidhe m Cathbadha
mic Giallchadha m Gunnchadha m Findchadha m Muireadhaigh find m Fiachach
findamnais m Ireoil glunmhair m Conaill cernaigh m Aimhirgin, et cetera.

Here you can see Conal cernaigh, Fiacha araidhe (from whom the Dal nAraidhe
are named) and Echach Cobha (from whom the Ui Echach cobha are named).

The O Clery Book of Genealogies only mention three septs in descent from
the Dal nAraidhi and all are also Ui Echach Cobha (McGuinness, McCartan,
O'Lynch).

The earliest Lords of Dal nAraidhe from this line recognizable in the
annals were O'Lynch. They are so described until to the 1100s when the title
seems to have fallen into disuse.

912 AD.

An army was led by Niall, son of Aedh Finnliath, into Dal-Araidhe, in the
month of June precisely. Loingseach Ua Leathlobhair, lord of Dal-Araidhe, met
them at Freghabhail where he was defeated by Niall; and he lost his brother in
the conflict, i. e. Flathrua Ua Leathlobhair.

The McGuinness line is first mentioned in 965 AD, when Aedh Ua hAitidhe,
king of Ui-Echach Cobha, is mentioned. This is the Aedh, son of Aenghusa (from
whom the sept are named), grandson (Ua) of Aitidhe. You can see these names
in the pedigree above.

M965.7

Aedh Ua hAitidhe, King of Ui-Eathach-Cobha, was killed by his own tribe.

Judging from these dates and generations in the pedigree, Maguinness and
McCartan probably branched apart into separate septs sometime around 700 AD.
The branching between this line and O Lynch occurred somewhat earlier, c. 500
AD. Most of the earlier kings of Dal nAraidhe cannot be identified in terms
of the surviving pedigrees (at least by me).

But bear in mind that a large percentage of Maguiness in the Trinity
sample were R1b, so the sept has multiple founders. I suspect the fact that the
McCartans are also I haplogroup (in fact identical to the Maguiness samples)
is why the main line of Maguiness chieftains are said to be I haplogroup. As
far as I know no O Lynch DNA samples from this line have been sampled. Lynch
is a very common surname in many parts of Ireland.


John


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